Possibly Getting Dismissed through Sham Redundancy.

AP007

keithrgj wrote: »

well well

back to insults as usual

you might also look at the employment rights act as well

i do not degrade into gutter fights, i am better than that and will not lower myself to it

adieu

Employers have more rights and we all know that. They can make it VERY difficult for you and you will never get another job if you start on them.

Caroline_a

Back to the OP, yes they can use whatever scoring system they want. I would say that as you work for a law firm they have probably got it totally correct in terms of the law , but a scoring system is pretty much the norm these days, and what people are scored on is pretty much up to management or HR. I would say that if they wish to get rid of you this way they pretty much have you over a barrel - often many scores are very subjective - for example 'good communicator' is often not really measurable and more of one person's opinion.

Personally I think you would be wasting your time and effort on looking at a tribunal. It may be morally unfair, but I doubt very much that it's legally unfair.

Additionally a 'downturn in business' may not necessarily mean that the work has decreased, but may mean that finances are tight, which is a valid reason for staff redundancy.

zzzLazyDaisy

If they were really targeting you for dismissal, they would not be going to all the trouble of setting up a sham redundancy exercise, and putting the whole team of legal secretaries through a sham selection and consultation process. Such exercises and time consuming, and disruptive to normal business.

If they had really wanted to get rid of you, they would have sacked you for gross misconduct when you were so rude to a client, instead of giving you a final written warning. In fact your employer has been lenient in my view, as the firms I have worked in would have given you a FWW over the incident with the trainee, in which case you would have been on a FWW when the incident with the client happened, and you would have been out the door anyway.

The employer wishes to reduce the number of secretaries that it employs from 6 to 5. That is a perfectly reasonable business decision. Using disciplinary records as part of the selection procedure is also standard practice.

If you are selected for redundancy as part of a scoring exercise, you have the right to appeal. If you are made redundant, you have the right to make a complaint to an employment tribunal.

On a more pragmatic note - I don't know where you work, but in my field the solicitors in our region all know each other, and they talk to each other. If you don't already have a reputation, you should do what you can to keep it that way if you are likely to be looking for work with other firms of solicitors in the local area.

Sycorax

Just to confirm zzzLazyDaisy's post, disciplinary records are often used as part of the selection criteria, along with attendance, absence and other measurable criteria.

The direct gov website also confirms this, mentioning disciplinary records specifically:
https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/being-selected-for-redundancy

LegalSec

zzzLazyDaisy....

Top marks for remembering my case a few months ago but Zero marks for accepting my employers version of events to which there is little or no evidence. I was not rude to a client just a little abrupt. Sure I have had a couple of run-ins with other people in the office but this seems to allow people to assume I was rude to a client without taking into account the stupid and self-important client's credibility in the matter. She wanted to show how her money gave her power and it looks as though she will win!!!

whitewing

LegalSec wrote: »

stupid and self-important client

On the basis of your own words, I consider it quite likely that you were rude rather than abrupt.

getmore4less

LegalSec wrote: »

zzzLazyDaisy....

Top marks for remembering my case a few months ago but Zero marks for accepting my employers version of events to which there is little or no evidence. I was not rude to a client just a little abrupt. Sure I have had a couple of run-ins with other people in the office but this seems to allow people to assume I was rude to a client without taking into account the stupid and self-important client's credibility in the matter. She wanted to show how her money gave her power and it looks as though she will win!!!

It's a bit late to try and defend your posiition now, you had a chance and decided you would not win and took the warnings.

You took a warning for attitude, failed to modify your behavour, not that smart especialy when it involves a PAYING client.

........

The problem now is this stuff is on record and can be used it is probably to late to go back and change the past so you need to focus on the future.

As has been said kicking up a fuss will likely finish/restrict your career in lawyers offices in you locality.

Is there anything that you can focus on that makes you the choice to keep over the others, if you are just 1 of 6 with no specific skill or knowledge they need to keep then the softer issues like time keeping disiplinaries do you fit in become the selection criteria.

Sambucus_Nigra

LegalSec wrote: »

zzzLazyDaisy....

Top marks for remembering my case a few months ago but Zero marks for accepting my employers version of events to which there is little or no evidence. I was not rude to a client just a little abrupt. Sure I have had a couple of run-ins with other people in the office but this seems to allow people to assume I was rude to a client without taking into account the stupid and self-important client's credibility in the matter. She wanted to show how her money gave her power and it looks as though she will win!!!

You don't have to have evidence. This isn't a court of law. And you had run ins with management prior to being rude to the client. And still are, let's hope nobody involved reads MSE

LegalSec

Thank you everyone but the replies have drifted back to whyI received a Final Written Warning rather than my original question, which is:

1. Have Employment Tribunals agreed upon a fairscoring system for redundancies? If sowhere can I find it?

2. If my employers proposed scoring is outside thisagreed scoring what can I do?

3. Can my employers refuse to show me my scoring?

Thanks

notanewuser

LegalSec wrote: »

Thank you everyone but the replies have drifted back to whyI received a Final Written Warning rather than my original question, which is:

1. Have Employment Tribunals agreed upon a fairscoring system for redundancies? If sowhere can I find it?

2. If my employers proposed scoring is outside thisagreed scoring what can I do?

3. Can my employers refuse to show me my scoring?

Thanks

1) no, they haven't
2) n/a
3) they don't have to show you anybody else's but if pressed they may agree to show you yours.

Just put your energies into finding another job - you're barking up the wrong tree with this.