EU-Mythbusting

StevieJ

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

That's socialism for you again. It's ridiculous that any foreign national could come to the UK and claim benefits, unless after a long period of residence and tax-paying and NI-paying employment.

How do you equate that with Socialism

GeorgeHowell

StevieJ wrote: »

How do you equate that with Socialism

Because socialists believe in indiscriminate benefits in the interests of redistribution and baling out anyone who decides they they are, or whom the socialists decide are, "vulnerable", "disadvantaged", or "socially excluded". I'm not sure exactly what the situation is with EU nationals, but the fact that some ministers are expressing concern re the Romanians and Bulgarians suggests that it's too generous, and more generous than other WE countries. If so, I suspect that Labour made it like that, encouraged by their soul-mates in Brussels, and that the LibDems are instrumental in resisting the situation being returning to sanity.

nomoreboomandbust

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The benefits claimant rate for immigrants is significantly lower than the benefits claimant rate of the native population.

The "lazy, skiving, scrounging scumbags who choose a life on benefits" are predominantly native born British.

They shouldn't be getting any benefits at all unless they have at least five years contributions,otherwise if you have no job you pi55 off back to your country of origin, its as simple as that

We have enough problems servicing the welfare needs of British born people without giving handouts to those who have only been in our shores a few months.

GeorgeHowell

nomoreboomandbust wrote: »

They shouldn't be getting any benefits at all unless they have at least five years contributions,otherwise if you have no job you pi55 off back to your country of origin, its as simple as that

We have enough problems servicing the welfare needs of British born people without giving handouts to those who have only been in our shores a few months.

That's all perfectly true. But the socialistic tendencies of the EU, the UK civil service, the human rights industry, and the LibDems within the coalition, will no doubt continue to ensure that the hard working, tax paying, law abiding, self reliant British taxpayer continues to get serially reamed in order to ensure the survival of all sorts of parasitic scumbags, both our own and imported ones.

Conrad

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The most recent study on it indicates that leaving the EU would result in a permanent reduction of 2.5% of GDP over where it would be if we stay in.



.

This is a council of dispair argument.

A Britain with entirely localised autonomy and decision making is likely to be a nation a little leaner and quicker off the mark which could easily counterbalance any supposed disadvantage.

There would be all sorts of distinct 'lean and mean' advantages that would enable us to trade even better with the world.

Furthermore, plenty of independant trading nations fair very well.

I'm just into into localism and having managment as close to the trench as possible.

Even Morocco has negotiated a fairly decent trading agreement with Europe for heavens sake.

John_Pierpoint

nomoreboomandbust wrote: »

They shouldn't be getting any benefits at all unless they have at least five years contributions,otherwise if you have no job you pi55 off back to your country of origin, its as simple as that

We have enough problems servicing the welfare needs of British born people without giving handouts to those who have only been in our shores a few months.

Do you remember the fuss about welfare tourism back in the Thatcher/Major era, when single young people qualified for benefits; even the national Union of Students encouraged students to "sign on" during the summer vacation ?

Loads of young people, who did not particularly want an "official" job gravitated to the coastal resorts, life as a beachbum was preferable to being stuck at home in some grim industrial town with mum and dad.
Who can blame them for learning to work the system.

nomoreboomandbust

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

That's all perfectly true. But the socialistic tendencies of the EU, the UK civil service, the human rights industry, and the LibDems within the coalition, will no doubt continue to ensure that the hard working, tax paying, law abiding, self reliant British taxpayer continues to get serially reamed in order to ensure the survival of all sorts of parasitic scumbags, both our own and imported ones.

The problem is that the number of tax payers is decreasing whilst the number either unemployed or working on pitifully low wages receiving help is increasing which means that the system is close to imploding.

Never mind, Hamish's Bulgarian chums are coming to the rescue in 2014

ILW

Is allowing free access to Romanian Gypsies of any benefit to the UK?

Conrad

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Who can blame them for learning to work the system.

The reason we get vexed about welfare tourism is because as ever Britain follows all the rules, whereas for example I know Brits who were told to go away by the Spanish health system recently, even a consultant there told Brits to efff off as the Spaniards put Spannish people first and too heck with PC rules.

Similarly I've noticed in France and Italy all sorts of EU wide rules are systemically ignored, for example when both nations put terror suspects on the first plane back to Jordan whereas of course the Brits have to have a decade of testing ooman rights legislation.


You can be certain a Bulgarain turning up for benefits in Italy or France will get quite a cool reception.

GeorgeHowell

ILW wrote: »

Is allowing free access to Romanian Gypsies of any benefit to the UK?

I expect that the do-gooders and lefties will make a case that it is -- enhance our diversity, enrich our culture and all that b******s.

This sort of think goes to the heart of the EU issue. How can anybody credibly argue that letting in Romanian gypsies is an essential part of a free trade pact ? The free movement policy is of course preparation for federalism, as is the Euro. All the Europhiles have to offer now as argument for carrying on with this lunacy is that we are so far in that we cannot come out without unacceptable pain and grief. Nothing positive to justify their case, only a negative stance to try to scupper the counter-argument.

Let's get the re-negotiations done and then have a referendum and let the people decide whether the outcome represents something sensible, acceptable, and beneficial for Britain. Anyone arguing against that course of action cannot legitimately call themselves a democrat.