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Flight delay and cancellation compensation, KLM/AF ONLY

edited 1 July 2014 at 5:08PM in Flight Delay Compensation
918 replies 175.4K views
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Replies

  • So what is my next move ,do i need to contact the Caa ,what letter do i issue ?
  • Here is my 3rd reply from air france after i issued your letter with regard to court action and the ECJ, so do i go to the CAA now as they are still refusing to pay ?

    Our reference :

    Dear Mrs

    Thank you for your further communication of 05 February in reply to mine of 01February.
    From this, I am sorry to learn that you are not in agreement with our previous reply. Whilst this is always of concern to us, I must confirm that we maintain our stance in this matter, i.e. that a time limit of two years exists in which to bring such a claim.

    This time limit of two years is indeed set out in the Montreal Convention of 1999. Article 35 of this convention stipulates that, 'the right to damages shall be extinguished if an action is not brought within a period of two years, reckoned from the date of arrival at the destination, or from the date on which the aircraft ought to have arrived, or from the date on which the carriage stopped.'

    Furthermore, there is an international consensus between nations to respect a general and fundamental principle concerning the hierarchy in law. This is as follows:

    1 - The National Constitution of the State, or its equivalent
    2 - The International Treaties or Conventions which are duly ratified by the State
    3 - The State's National Law
    4 - Statutory Acts (Regulations, Decrees, Judgements, etc.)

    It therefore follows that the articles contained in an International Convention which is ratified by a given State take precedence over the National Law of that State.

    It is also a fundamental principle of law that special rules supersede general rules and therefore, in the case of States having ratified the Montreal or Warsaw Conventions, the limitation period of two years in which to bring a claim for damages arising during air transportation takes precedence over any general limitation period mentioned in the State's National Law.

    Concerning the travel voucher which was offered to you on 10 April 2010 I must point out that it was an electronic one and the confirmation of it was in the emailed communication sent to you by my colleague at the time ,as a follow up and explanation concerning the disruption to your journey. No paper document was therefore sent.

    I am sorry you were unable to make use of it within the one year validity stated but must point out that the voucher stopped being valid on 10 April 2011. Please see below a copy of our 10 April emailed message to you.

    I am sorry to disappoint you once more, as I understand that this is not the answer you wished for. However, I do hope we can move forward from this point that and that we might have an early opportunity to restore your confidence in our service.

    Yours sincerely,

    Customer Care
  • Straight to Court Genie, let them tell the judge that they shouldn't be there :D
  • Any advice appreciated.

    Flew KLM/Martinair August 2010 from BHX to MCO via AMS. First leg was KLM and was on time. Arrived in AMS to find a 5 hour delay posted. Had been given no notification of this in Birmingham. Were given food vouchers to cover the delay and eventually took off just over 5 hours late. I have put in a compensation claim for the second half of the journey but had it denied on the grounds that the Netherlands have a 2 year time limit for claims. I have tried to read around this point and it does appear to be the case. Would it make any difference if I had claimed for the whole journey which started in the UK or is it that because as a Dutch company it doesn't matter where the journey started the time limit would be 2 years. I think I know the answer to this question really but just want another opinion.
    Thanks for reading.
  • ELIBEC wrote: »
    Any advice appreciated.

    Flew KLM/Martinair August 2010 from BHX to MCO via AMS. First leg was KLM and was on time. Arrived in AMS to find a 5 hour delay posted. Had been given no notification of this in Birmingham. Were given food vouchers to cover the delay and eventually took off just over 5 hours late. I have put in a compensation claim for the second half of the journey but had it denied on the grounds that the Netherlands have a 2 year time limit for claims. I have tried to read around this point and it does appear to be the case. Would it make any difference if I had claimed for the whole journey which started in the UK or is it that because as a Dutch company it doesn't matter where the journey started the time limit would be 2 years. I think I know the answer to this question really but just want another opinion.
    Thanks for reading.

    If you are a consumer based in England then the relevant time period is 6 years - not 2. (Section 9 of the Limitation Act [1980] provides that "an action to recover any sum recoverable by virtue of any enactment shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date of which the cause of action accrued.")

    Why does English law apply?

    The Brussels Regulation provides that the contract between a business (KLM) and a consumer (you) cannot deprive the consumer of the protection of the laws of the country in which s/he has her/his habitual residence (i.e. England).

    This is echoed in the E-Commerce Regulations 2002 which, while providing for a "country of origin" principle meaning that suppliers will only be liable in their home jurisdiction, specifically excludes consumer transactions from such protection.

    This means that KLM will be obliged to meet all of the legal requirements relating to the sale of services of the type being sold in the country where you are based.

    You would sue KLM under the European Small Claims Procedure using Form A to be issued in an English county court and served on them in Holland. You might want to check first though whether you must serve your proceedings in Dutch (e-mail THESE PEOPLE). If so, the cost of professional translation can be included in your claim.
  • I booked flights via Asda Travel (for myself) and Opodo (for my parents) with KLM in December 2007.

    Flights were from Birmingham to Almaty (Kazakhstan) via Amsterdam. Flights were made on the same booking reference.

    Total delay was 36 hours - flight was cancelled twice (first time round the BHX-AMS leg was cancelled, second time AMS-ALA was cancelled) and I was flown via Paris and Moscow.

    First question, do I claim from the agents or KLM? And secondly, does the total travel distance count for the calculation of compensation ie 6000km not 500km for the first leg?
  • We flew with Klm from ams to Dubai feb 2012, flight cancelled, put up in hotel, fed, flew next day got 50€ voucher each.
    Copied and pasted the standard letter in here last week asking for €600 each, within a week got £250 vouchers each so am pleased with that
  • TiTheRevTiTheRev Forumite
    3.2K posts
    In Dec '09 we were on a Christmas break to SA with Air France and the snow delayed our flight from Heathrow to Paris, and then we missed our next two connecting flights from Paris to Jo'burg and from Jo'burg to East London. I actually had to buy a new ticket for the connecting flight for all four of us. I complained at the time and got a voucher for £200, but never used it as we couldn't afford another holiday that next year, where do we stand there do you think?

    Thanks in advance for your help!
    :A Luke 6:38 :A
    The above post is either from personal experience or is my opinion based on the person God has made me and the way I understand things. Please don't be offended if that opinion differs from yours, but feel free to click the 'Thanks' button if it's at all helpful!
  • this is my letter to KLM, CAN I CLAIM COMPENSATION..THIS WAS THE FIRST LETTER. I HAVE WRITTEN TO THEM MANY TIMES... ALL THEY DID WAS SENT ME A LETTER OF APOLOGY

    Sat, 6 Mar 2010 at 17:316 Mar 2010
    Message starred
    Re: KLC050524KHA46
    Hide Details
    From
    To
    KLM
    dear sir or madam,
    i hav just sent u copy of my correspondence outlining my complaint before i sent u the letter below. i am sending u this again. i hop u receive it... it seems like every correspondence seems to go to separate computers. i fail to understand. heres a copy..pls luk into my case..


    Flag this message[ No Subject ]Tuesday, 19 April, 2005 17:13From: IM WRITING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE OF MY OUTBOUND AND INBOUND FLIGHT WITH KLM... THE OUTBOUND FLIGHT HAD DELAYS FROM AMSTERDAM TO START WITH.. IM PREGNANT AND WAS GETTING FRUSTRATED.TRAVELLING WITH MY HUSBAND AND A CHILD. DUE TO DELAYS FROM AMSTERDAM DEPARTURE WE MISSED THE CONNECTING FLIGHT FROM NAIROBI TO MOMBASA. ACCOMODATION WAS SORTED AFTER
    SEVERAL ARGUMENTS WITH YOUR STAFF IN KENYA.I HAD LOTS OF PROBLEMS TRYING TO SORT OUT THE CONNECTING FLIGHT THE FOLLOWING MORNING.YOUR STAFF IN NAIROBI WAS EXTREMELY RUDE AND SUGGESTED US TO HAVE TAKEN A COACH TO MOMBASA IF WE WERE IN A RUSH OR PAY EXTRA FOR BUSINESS CLASS AS WE HAD TO WAIT FOR ANY CHANCE OF CANCELLATIONS OR NO SHOWS THROUGHOUT THE DAY. WE WERE THEN PUT INTO A BRITISH AIRWAYS FLIGHT AFTER ARGUMENTS AT 0945 .AFTER WAITING AT THE AIRWAYS FROM 5AM....EVENTUALLY GOT THERE.
    NOW ON MY WAY BACK I MADE SURE I RECONFIRMED ALL THE TICKETS INCLUDING MY SISTERS' (WHO WAS TRAVELLING TOGETHER) SO THAT I DONT GET ANY PROBLEMS ON MY WAY BACK.WE GOT TO THE AIRPORT RIGHT ON CHECKING TIME.WE WERE TOLD THE FLIGHT IS OVERBOOKED AND THE STAFF VERY RUDE SAID CONFIDENTLY THAT IT IS A COMMON THING KLM DOES THEREFORE UNABLE TO GO ON THAT FLIGHT. AFTER SEVERAL DISCUSSIONS WE WERE PUT INTO A LATER BRITISH AIRWAYS FLIGHT . ON ARRIVAL TO NAIROBI HAD TO WAIT AT THE AIRPORT FOR TRANSPORT AS WE DID NOT ARRIVE AT THE AIRPORT AS PER ARRANGED.
    AFTER ALL THAT HASSLE. THE FINAL THING WE WANTED IS TO GET BACK TO UK WITH NO PROBLEMS .. WE GOT TO NAIROBI AIRPORT 3HOURS BEFORE DEPARTURE AFTER A LONG WAIT IN THE QUEUE WHEN WE GOT TO THE CHECK IN DESK WE ARE TOLD OUR TKTS ARE CANCELLED .. KLM DID NOT HAVE AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT. KLM FLIGHTS DONT NEED TO BE RECONFIRMED AS ADVISED ON YOUR WEBSITE... LUCKILY I RECONFIRMED THE TKTS AS THAT WAS THE FIRST QUESTION I HAD FROM YOUR STAFF IN KENYA. I HANDED THE PRINT OUT OF RECONFIRMATION. AND WE ALL GOT STUCK THERE. 4 TICKETS ALL CANCELLED AND KLM HAS NO REASON FOR THAT. FLIGHT FULLY BOOKED THEY COULD NOT SORT OUT SEATS FOR US. WE ALL HAD TO START WORK FOLLOWING DAY IN UK ... I WAS LOSING MY PATIENCE JUST TO REMIND YOU I AM EXPECTING AND WAS GETTING VERY VERY FRUSTRATED BY THIS.THE SUPERVIOSR SORTED THE TKTS FOR THE NEXT FLIGHT WHICH WAS AFTER ALMOST 12 HOURS.. HOWEVER WE WERE TOLD THE AMSTERDAM TO BIRMINHAM FLIGHT IS NOT CONFIRMED AS AGAIN THE FLIGHT IS
    OVERBOOKED THEY COULD ONLY GUARANTEE THE NEXT FLIGHT FROM AMS TO BXM... WE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO TAKE IT. WE WERE GIVEN TEMPORARY BOARDING PASS JUST IN CASE OF NO SHOWS ON THE EARLIEST FLIGHT AFTER LANDING IN AMS. LUCKILY WE WERE PUT INTO THE NEXT FLIGHT AND GOT TO BXM ... HAD TO ARRANGE TO GET TO LEICESTER AS WE COULD NOT MAKE ANY ARRANGEMENTS OF TRANSPORT FROM BIRMINGHM TO WHERE WE LIVE AS KLM WAS NOT SURE WHEN WILL ARRIVE. I GUESS IF YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH ALL THESE ON OUTBOUND AND INBOUND YOU WOULD LOSE HOPE WITH THE AIRLINE..LAST BUT NOT LEAST I FELL ILL HAD COMPLICATIONS WITH MY PREGNANCY AND HAD TO GO FOR A SCAN NEXT DAY AFTER ARRIVAL...VERY STRESSFUL FLIGHT OF MY LIFE...
    I REGRET TO INFORM YOU THAT WE WILL NOT CHOOSE KLM IN THE FUTURE UNLESS WE ARE COMPENSATED FOR THIS TERRIBLE EXPERIENCE FOR MYSELF. MY SISTER, MY HUSBAND AND MY CHILD. BELOW ARE MY DETAILS OF THE FLIGHT

    FLIGHT DETAILS..
    KL1420V 22MAR BHXAMS 0600 0825 ON TIME.
    KL565V 22MAR AMSNBO 1025 2025 TECHNICAL FAULT. ARRIVED NBO AT 2400.MISSED CONNECTING FLIGHT TO MBA. 23MAR TRANSFERRED TO NORFOLK HOTEL AT 0200. WAKE UP CALL AT 0400 TO BE AT AIRPORT AT 0500 FOR 0700 FLIGHT TO MBA. FLIGHT OVERBOOKED.
    0945 BRITISH AIRWAYS FLIGHT BA8651 OFFERED AFTER LOT OF STRESS AND ARGUMENT AND RUDE STAFF.

    INBOUND
    KQ603V 08 APR MBANBO 0930 1030.
    FLIGHT OVERBOOKED. SEVERAL ARGUMENTS. OFFERED BRITISH AIRWAYS FLIGHT BA8652 TO NBO AT 1015.
    KL4340V 11APR NBOAMS 1000 1810.
    FLIGHT CANCELLED WITH NO EXPLANATION. AFTER A LONG WAIT AT AIRPORT AND HASSLE OFFERED ACCOMODATION FOR THE DAY TILL 1800. READY FOR 2115 FLIGHT KL0566M IF LUCKY.
    AMSBHX NOT CONFIRMED. STANDBY FOR KL1421 AMSBHX 12APR 0715 IN CASE OF ANY LAST MINUTE CANCELLATIONS.

    WENT TO MANAGERS OFFICE IN MOMBASA WITH A WRITTEN COMPLAINT ABOUT OUTBOUND FLIGHT SO THAT WE DO NOT HAVE TO FACE THE SAME PROBLEM WHEN COMING BACK. LEFT THE OFFICE RECONFIRMING OUR INBOUND TRAVEL AND ALL OUR CONTACT DETAILS AND E-MAIL ADDRESS.WE WERE TOLD MARY ANN WACHIRA, CUSTOMER RELATIONS LIASON OFFICER WILL GET IN TOUCH. WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM ANYONE IN KLM OR KENYA AIRWAYS, VERY DISAPPOINTING.
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