Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Virgin Atlantic ONLY

JPears

I suspect Virgin are blurring facts and reality here to dissuade you from a claim.

Wendy_Jo

Unfortunately it was 24th June 2012 and so coming up to the 6 year limitations. I triedEUClaim.com but the advice is it is too close to claim.

JPears

Wendy, if you DIY claim/legal route you have time. Send your NBA now with 2 weeks notice. As a bolster/encouragement to Virgin you could also send copies of your proposed court papers all completed but unsigned and dated to show you have intent which you would then submit if they don't pay within 14 days.
Its doable but you'll need to be organised. And it will actually put pressure on VA.
They are trying to run you out of time, clear and simple.

Wendy_Jo

Thanks very much. NBA - is this the small claims application? Is there any mileage of escalating to Aviation ADR? Or is it too late for this? The other problem I have is the booking details are from my written notes at the time, the original booking confirmation through email has long gone through orange.net when they closed this down.

JPears

You need to download Vauban's super informative guide (google it) - all the info you need is there. NBA = notice before action. Basically final (legally essential) warning before you go to court.
You can send VA a SAR, see if they have any details, flight info on you.

Wendy_Jo

Cheers JPears....got it! I'm going for it.:dance:

Wendy_Jo

Ok, so NBA sent and response received...they seem pretty certain.


Thank you for your recent email. I understand that you may be disappointed with the outcome of your claim so please allow me to explain a little further.

As you are aware your claim has been denied on the grounds that the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

Guidelines on applying ‘extraordinary circumstances’ have been developed by the national enforcement bodies (NEBs) across Europe, including the UK Civil Aviation Authority. In your particular claim the reason for your delay was beyond the control of Virgin Atlantic due to a flight planning system failure which impacted a number of airlines globally.

As a result of this system failure our operational teams had to implement a manual plan for all our aircraft movements , worldwide. A combination of the system failure and the requirement to to re-plan aircraft movements meant that flights were unfortunately and regrettably delayed. Our staff worked hard to keep delays to a minimum however the scale of the system failure meant that this was beyond our control.

We do not underestimate the disappointment that this decision may cause you or for the delay and disruption that you experienced to your travel plans.

Vauban

Wendy_Jo wrote: »

Ok, so NBA sent and response received...they seem pretty certain.


Thank you for your recent email. I understand that you may be disappointed with the outcome of your claim so please allow me to explain a little further.

As you are aware your claim has been denied on the grounds that the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

Guidelines on applying ‘extraordinary circumstances’ have been developed by the national enforcement bodies (NEBs) across Europe, including the UK Civil Aviation Authority. In your particular claim the reason for your delay was beyond the control of Virgin Atlantic due to a flight planning system failure which impacted a number of airlines globally.

As a result of this system failure our operational teams had to implement a manual plan for all our aircraft movements , worldwide. A combination of the system failure and the requirement to to re-plan aircraft movements meant that flights were unfortunately and regrettably delayed. Our staff worked hard to keep delays to a minimum however the scale of the system failure meant that this was beyond our control.

We do not underestimate the disappointment that this decision may cause you or for the delay and disruption that you experienced to your travel plans.

These "EU guidelines" were drawn up by the CAA at the behest of the airlines - and have been trashed by courts, who note that they bear no relation to the law. (You can form your own view about why the CAA might have done this.)

If the problem was that the airline's own systems failed, then this is an operational issue for the airlines and not extraordinary circumstances. You are therefore entitled to all the protections afforded under the Regulation. You might need to go to court to get it - but I can't seen an airline defending under these circumstances. It's a pretty clear case in my view.

How does it make you feel that the airline should so clearly mislead you in this way - and with such a patronising tone? I find it extraordinary.

Wendy_Jo

I must admit, there are 3 things that stand out for me
1) my recollection of being told that there was a technical fault with the aircraft and the delay was due to awaiting a new part - no mention of manual flight planning at the time
2) no mention of global disruption on 24th June 2012 worldwide in relation to 'flight planning systems being faulty'. This may be due to my lay person's understanding of external flight planning systems. Surely the airline choose which flight planning system they use??
3) I requested VA to refer me to the court cases mentioned in the first response specifically around flight system planning faults, no mention in the 2nd response.

JPears

That, in my opinion, is not a valid EC. Airlines operating systems malfunction are the responsibility of the airline, whether run by a third party or not. This is no different to an aircraft tech issue.
Also the fact the they responded so quickly with a fob off is suspicious. It would seem they really don't want you to go to court. Give them one last chance, quickly, within your time limits, stating you don't consider that an EC. Then if not favourable outcome, put in your court papers.
It will cost them alot to defend.
Welcome Lord Vaubans. Have you been on sabbatical for a new hat?