Flight delay and cancellation compensation, BA ONLY

cleavers1066

Caz3121 wrote: »

Was this the 13th March by any chance. I would expect the issue with the fog to then turn to issues with Air Traffic restrictions. Heathrow has a very large volume of flights and when visibility is bad ATC will often restrict the numbers forcing airlines to cancel a number of their flights which they would have likely done at the start of the day. According to Flightstats yours was certainly not the only flight delayed that afternoon/evening
How much later did you arrive compared to scheduled time?

Thanks Caz, yes it was the 13th, the flight was in fact just cancelled, so under our own steam we went to the airport to speak to BA check in staff, who directed us to Iberia, who were able to rebook us on one of their flights to Madrid, and then onto Barcelona, without charge. However had we not done that, we might have been stuck in Barcelona, as BA gave us no other options, and the earlierst flight available on their website was on the 15th. We actually arrived at heathrow a few minutes early, but lost most of the day in Barcelona, and were not offered any food or drink, and had a 15 minute connection to make in Madrid.

A couple of issues with this.

BA have stated that the delay was due to "adverse weather". If they then change tack and start claiming ATC restrictions it does little for their credibility should this be taken to court.

If the OP's flight wasn't due to depart BCN until 17.20 and the fog had indeed cleared by 10.30 earlier that day, then of course there might have been some knock on effects due to aircraft being out of position etc. This does not give the airline a valid defence since adverse weather can only be a valid defence if it impacted the operation of the OP's flight (the flight concerned).

The OP might also like to refer to the Eglitis & Ratnieks judgment linked in the FAQs on page 1 of this thread which also supports the OP's claim to the extent that the "Airlines should organise its resources in good time to be able to ensure the operation of the flight in its entirety after Extraordinary Circumstances have ended."

I believe it is worth taking further.

Thanks centipede, I intend to take it further because the whole thing annoys me, that its just an excuse. Since I work as a Meteorolgist, and also in the aviation industry, I know exactly why they cancelled some flights in the morning, I know its all about slots at heathrow, and thaht they tend to use them for the long haul flights first (fair enough), but as far as I'm concerned their plane or crew being in the wrong place is their problem not mine, especially as I know exactly what the forecast was, and also the weather for the whole day.

I think there was adequate time to re-arrange after the fog cleared. I expect a long fight with them, but I intend to take it as far as is practical.

kilo5

I have a similar scenario to Cleavers1066.


Returning from Naples, Italy on sat Feb 15th 2014. I had numerous texts during the day saying the flight was delayed and this varied from 45mins to 90 mins.


After check-in, we were told the flight was cancelled. After a 3 hour marathon wait we were told we would be flying the next day on Lufthansa via Munich to LHR. Our original flight was to LGW.


We were accommodated and fed overnight, and flew back ok.


Put in a claim to BA and have already had the "out of pocket" expenses returned. The initial letter stated our flight was cancelled due to "operational circumstances outside of BA's control."


I replied asking for the exact reason for this and have now been told it was "operational circumstances and adverse weather at LGW Diversion was also seen at London Gatwick due to thunderstorm activity."


Our return flight was the only BA one cancelled out of LGW on the 15th of Feb and I cannot find any online weather reports for that day which mention thunderstorms.


Is there a weather records site I can check for certain before I reply?

David_e

kilo5 wrote: »

adverse weather at LGW Diversion was also seen at London Gatwick due to thunderstorm activity."

Are they saying that your flight couldn't have landed because of the weather or your plane wasn't in Naples because of the weather in the UK?

If it's the latter, then Paragraph 14 of the Preamble to Regulation 261/2004 makes it clear that the defence of “extraordinary circumstances” is limited where weather conditions are concermed. Paragraph 14 says “… meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned …”.

kilo5

David_e wrote: »

Are they saying that your flight couldn't have landed because of the weather or your plane wasn't in Naples because of the weather in the UK?

If it's the latter, then Paragraph 14 of the Preamble to Regulation 261/2004 makes it clear that the defence of “extraordinary circumstances” is limited where weather conditions are concermed. Paragraph 14 says “… meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned …”.

They are saying that the outbound flight was delayed initially due to weather; I had text messages from 09:00 and throughout the day giving details which varied from 45 to 90 mins. Then at 16:33 GMT we were told it was cancelled. BA6212 was due to leave the UK at 14:20 GMT.


Am I correct in saying that met conditions can only be used as extraordinary circumstances for the flight you are booked on and therefore they have no defence as ours was inbound to LGW?


Also, I note that they are saying "operational circumstances" not "extraordinary circumstances". This obviously has some relevance?

David_e

kilo5 wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that met conditions can only be used as extraordinary circumstances for the flight you are booked on and therefore they have no defence as ours was inbound to LGW?

Indeed, that's what I said and the quote is from the relevant legislation so quite difficult for an airline to argue against!

Your problem was caused by the failure to have an aircraft in Naples to operate your flight (and failure to procure one when the intended one didn't arrive).

kilo5 wrote: »

Also, I note that they are saying "operational circumstances" not "extraordinary circumstances". This obviously has some relevance?

Well, only to the extent that the latter has some legal meaning and the former doesn't. If anything an "operational circumstance" sounds like something that the airline can and should be managing rather than an excuse! It certainly points more to something within the control of the airline than outside.

I'd write back and refer them to the quote in my earlier post but also I would make it an NBA as, if they don't pay up this time, you'll need to take legal action.

nettinoo

I would just like to say a huge thank you to this site. Our flight was delayed from Manchester to Heathrow last May causing us to miss out connection from Heathrow to NY. This was a very special holiday for my family and we started off by missing a day! I tried to claim when we came home through our holiday insurance but they refused as the delayed flight was not to our final destination and BA didn't want to know. Only through a friend in work mentioning this site I thought I would give it a go. on 01st April I forward the letter as advised to us to BA and did receive a number of emails from them saying they were looking into my complaint my final email came on Monday to say we were entitled to full compensation and please forward bank details. Thank you from a very happy family :j:T

daniel1987

I was flying back from NYC to Edinburgh Via london when our flight got delayed by 2 hours meaning we missed our connecting flight on the 1/4/14. This was the day when heathrow had fog and planes were delayed. On getting off the NYC flight we were advised that we were put on the 9.45am flight to which we were told when we got to the BA desk that all UK flights ad been cancelled and we were put on the 11.40am flight. 2 hours before the flight we got called over by the BA desk to say that we had been taking off the 11.40am flight as it was overbooked and there wasnt a flight until 1pm. This was over 5 hours after we landed.
BA desk confirmed that planes were running late becuse of the fog but UK flights were least priority. BA desk confirmed that they had put us on a virgin flight leaving at 11.30am from terminal 1 (we were in terminal 5) but we went over to find out our plane was delayed in edinburgh becuase of technical fault. Finally the plane arrived at 3pm but there was something wrong with the plane and we were delayed another 2 hours finally we boarded the plane at 5pm to get back to edinburgh at 6pm. A total of 9 hours late.

I have submitted a claim with BA for the way we were treated and the disgust that they passed us on to virgin instead of looking after the customers.

I dont hold my breath for compensation but will not be flying again with BA at the way we were treated.

Donny_fan

Morning all

I have appreciated the advice I have received on here in the past regarding our claim with BA, and wondered if I could ask once again? We have received a response from BA, but does how do I know if the faulty seal had been maintained properly? Do we pursue this asking for a copy of the service log for example? Also, this time they make no mention of a safety issue!?
Apologies for all the questions in advance, many thanks
Here is their reply...


"I have reviewed your claim for compensation and as explained earlier your flight was delayed as the aircraft suffered an oil leak from the engine number two and it required a replacement seal. As this had been maintained in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines, this constitutes as extraordinary circumstances and could not have been avoided.

Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. I regret, therefore you are not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight"

111KAB

Do not get involved in the detail ... your plane had a technical problem which is quite ordinary and definitely not extraordinary. A plane can be likened to a car .... they are machines which can break down and they do on a regular basis. So a commonplace problem that should be sorted by the airline within 3 hours or they pay up.

Donny_fan

Thanks 111KAB, so do you think I should pursue this through CAA now or go back directly to BA challenging this?
Thanks again for your help.