Flight delay and cancellation compensation, BA ONLY

Tyzap

PaulJenkins1971 wrote: »

Any advice on how to proceed?

Hi Paul,

JPears advice is good, even tho his numbering system isn't:)

I would just add that there are some similarities to this post on the Thomson thread...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=75455189&postcount=9175

Have a read and follow the thread which will give you some idea what to expect.

It's moot point whether it was caused by an EC, as BA most definitely could not prove that they did everything in their powers to reduce your delay. They would fail the 'all reasonable measures' test regardless of the original cause of the delay.

If I were you, I would have a last go at persuading BA CS (phone them in the afternoon) to see sense and then either DIY via CEDR or pass it to Botts for a fee and let them do all the work for you. However, I'm confident that CEDR would find in your favour.

Good luck.

jpsartre

Tyzap wrote: »

I would just add that there are some similarities to this post on the Thomson thread...

Some similarites perhaps but an important difference is that in the TUI case, CEDR found that the outbound flight was NOT delayed due to extraordinary circumstances. Of course, any knock-on delay caused by this to the inbound flight would not be extraordinary either. In this case, however, it sounds like the outbound flight was delayed due to extraordinary circumstances (strong winds). If so, it remains an open question whether the delay to the flight back is extraordinary or not. Given the times listed, I strongly lean towards a negative answer and I doubt CEDR would side with the passenger in this case. Only exception I can think of if is the delay was known well ahead of time (Paul doesn't specify when he notified of the delay?). Again, it's a very short delay, what sort of reasonable steps do you think the airline could have taken to avoid it?

PaulJenkins1971

Thank you for everybodys advice. I can see there are different opinions about my case but I have called Bott & Co and the agent I talked to was confident that they would be able to obtain compensation for me. However, I will try to go through CERD first (which I had never heard of before so thank you for pointing me in that direction). I assume I can let Bott & Co take the case for me if this is not succesful?

[Deleted User]

[FONT=&quot]To summarise[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: delayed and cancelled flight from LGK to KUL resulted in being bumped off my next flight with BA from KUL to LHR and put onto a flight with Malaysia Airlines the next morning. My gripe lies in: a lack of consistency in quality (with BA markedly better than Malaysia Airlines – so why should I pay the same for a lesser airline out of no choice), poor service by Malaysia Airlines in managing overnight stay, no refund or compensation, with travel agent, both airlines and CAA passing blame. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]In detail[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: I booked a series flights with STA Travel in January 2018, of which my complaint concerns my flights in Dec-2018 from Langkawi to Kuala Lumpur (with Malaysia Airlines), then the flight from Kuala Lumpur to London Heathrow (with British Airways). [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Our Malaysia Airlines flight from LGK to KUL was delayed, then cancelled (due to technical fault I believe). Without warning, Malaysia Airlines bumped us off our British Airways (BA) flight from KUL to LHR and put us on a Malaysia Airlines flight the next morning. We paid considerable money almost a year in advance with STA Travel to get a flight with BA, and we are incredibly frustrated that STA Travel and BA both allowed Malaysia Airlines to take control of our flight booking and put us onto a lesser airline. What was very frustrating was that despite the delay in getting to KUL, we were only a few minutes behind the gate closing for the original BA flight from KUL to LHR; but as we were immediately bumped off the flight we no longer had tickets for the BA flight we could have reached had the plane been held for a couple minutes. There were around 20 other passengers in the same circumstance as myself. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I spent considerable money on a BA flight due to the quality and reputation. I also booked almost a year in advance to ensure I got the best flight and time. Furthermore, I invested in specific seats months prior to the flight as they were right for my needs. I am incredibly frustrated that I have spent a lot of time and money on a BA flight, only to be bumped off the flight without warning or notice to a lesser airline (Malaysia Airlines) for which we were told by the counter at KUL airport that Malaysia Airlines is not as good as BA, and that the seat leg room was "much smaller". At 6 foot 2 in height, I chose BA because I knew the seats were fairly reasonable for my leg room. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The food vouchers given by Malaysia Airlines for the delayed and subsequently cancelled flight from LGK to KUL were totally useless. 20 MYR for dinner in an airport as small as LGK at midnight was unacceptable – almost all shops were closed, and 20 MYR got us all of 2 hot drinks at a Starbucks! Hardly dinner. The breakfast provided by the hotel was equally appalling – a small portion of cold rice given in a Tupperware! [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The service was unacceptable throughout the trip from LGK to KUL, and then from KUL to LHR. The flight from LGK to KUL was cancelled, and a replacement offered hours later. Due to the bumped flight for the following morning, we were forced into a hotel for the night when we reached KL. The transport from KUL airport to the hotel offered by Malaysia Airlines was poor - the minibus transfer to the hotel was cramped and unprofessional, the driver was surly and impolite, and we waited around 45 mins to check in at the hotel as there was only one member of staff at the check-in desk. The transfer from the hotel in Kuala Lumpur to the airport was 25 minutes late, and again very cramped and unprofessional. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]We had paid a lot of money for a BA flight that we could have easily reached had the plane been held for only a few minutes longer. What it seems is that the original BA flight had been overbooked, and a result of this we were quickly bumped off our flight and given a poorer alternative the next day. This entire experience has been wholly disappointing and appalling. Furthermore, both of us as passengers have been denied the frequent flyer miles we would have received had we flown on the original BA flight. This formed a major part of the contract as we were aware that booking with BA meant we would benefit greatly. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]With all of this in mind, does this constitute a breach of contract? If so, with whom does the contract lie (STA Travel, BA, Malaysia Airlines, Oneworld)? Am I entitled a refund and/or compensation? [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]N.B.:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] STA Travel, BA and Malaysia Airlines have refused to take any blame, instead pushing it onto each other. I contacted the CAA regarding the matter, however they stated as the flight was no in the EU they have no jurisdiction on the matter under EC Regulation 261/2004. I have considered contacting Oneworld however it seems to be their mission to be the most uncontactable institution on earth. [/FONT]

Caz3121

Malaysian airlines delayed you and would have been responsible to sort your ticket out to get you to your final destination as quickly as possible.
Did you discuss this at the airport and say you would prefer to delay your journey further by waiting for a BA flight that had space?
No EU261 compensation as the delay was caused by a non-EU airline outside of the EU.
Have a look on BA Forum on Flyertalk for ORC (Original routing credit) - although there may not be that much difference between the miles given for the MH flight and what you would have got on BA.
ATC slots mean delaying a flight to wait for late passengers could result in hours delay waiting for new slot..and because it would have been the airline decision to wait, all onboard may have ended up being due delay compensation. Also many of the passengers may have had connections in London that could be missed if the aircraft waited.
The other place to look at would be your travel insurance policy to see whether they pay anything for the length of delay.

d_rok69

Hi

Im looking for a bit of advice on a issue that has arised.

Last June i won a sales incentive trip through my work 22 people within my business got an all expenses paid trip to Mauritius. On the way back our flight was delayed by two days and we got put up in a hotel by BA. In the airport we were all handed compensation claim information.

When i got back to Gatwick i mentioned to BA Staff what had happened and they took me aside and helped me fill in the compensation form on my phone. They told me that even thought it was a work trip compensation is due at an individual level as the individual was inconvenienced and my work could also claim for loss of time etc. I recieved £550 in August last year and was very happy.

So last night i got an email from my work saying they have tried to do a group claim and its been a huge hassle (basically BA put us up in a hotel and the group organised switched us to a better hotel and made BA pay so i assume this is why they wont pay).

My work is now trying to get all 22 people who were on the trip to claim and pay the money back to them but ive obviously already claimed and i dont feel its right as BA had advised i could claim individually.

Im pretty sure when my work finds out i claimed myself they will try and make me pay them back the money which i dont feel is right.

Does anyone have any advice on this. Should i pay the money or am i legally bound to?

[Deleted User]

Thanks for coming back to me Caz3121. The airport did not offer us to be put onto another BA flight. When we asked I believe we were offered a flight a fair few days later (can't remember the exact time but it wasn't the same day that's for sure).



I have just got off the phone with Citizens Advice who have advised I seek damages for a breach of contract with STA Travel as they are who the contract is with (despite STA stating otherwise) and that I do so through an ADR scheme rather than through the courts.



I think my main concern is that there was a marked difference in the quality between BA and Malaysia Airlines, and no form of apology or compensation has been offered for this downgrading. You would expect that being part of the Oneworld group would mean some level of consistency, however this is clearly not the case!

Caz3121

Deleted User wrote: »

no form of apology or compensation has been offered for this downgrading.

what class of travel were you booked in and what class of travel did you travel in?
If you travelled in the same class it will not be classed as a downgrade.
according to seat guru the economy seats on MH are slightly wider and same or more legroom than on BA.
I would ask BA for a refund of your seat assignment fees.

[Deleted User]

Booked economy and sat in economy. I should note, the downgrading refers to the overall airline quality (the service, the aircraft and so on), not simply the seat.



I bought the tickets under the premise I would fly BA, and as I was forced onto a different airline is it not therefore a breach of contract (Consumer Rights Ac5 2015 section 11 - goods to be as described)?

Caz3121

the airline still operated the flight and the reason you did not get on the flight is because of the delay from LGK. You would need to deal with Malaysian's conditions of carriage regarding delays. Generally this would be to ensure you get to your final destination in the same class of travel as soon as possible.
Interesting on this thread (mostly regular BA travellers) many consider the MH flight in economy better than the BA flight
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1941608-ba-malaysia-kul-2.html