Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Tui/Thomson ONLY

Mark2spark

Centipede100 wrote: »

And with which I disagree with some on here that it is relevant to flight delays as the facts of the case involved denied boarding not delay.

You have enough precedent case law with Sturgeon, Wallentin-Hermann and Eglitis & Ratnieks without having to introduce a case that would be irrelevant to your own (Lassooy v Finnair).

I can see why you disagree.
But my take on it is that the other judgements refer to the pre ambles in the Reg, specifically Sturgeon, when coming to a decision on whether a delay after a certain length of time equates to a cancellation. The Court decided that a delay after a certain length of time, is effectively a cancellation.
Therefore following the same logical path, IMO a case of denied boarding - although not always - could also be read as being in the same vein as cancellations and delays.
Meaning that the denied boarding event introduced a delay where previously there perhaps might not have been one.

But every case is different, so one interpretation doesn't always follow onto another one, even with similarities.

MrTito9

I shall never be travelling Thomson again.

My flight out to Ibiza was delayed by over 5 hours, if that wasn't bad enough my return flight was delayed by over 6 hours!

Question (sorry, but the information might be buried within the previous 89 pages). What kind of compensation am I entitled to? And will they pay up?

I've seen that for a delay of over 5 hours you are entitled to 250euros. But can this work with both directions of travel?

I am really surprised this airline hasn't gone out of business yet.

David_e

Vauban wrote: »

Would it be unduly pedantic for me to note that there has been no "change in legislation". What happened last October was that the ECJ rejected the airlines' attempt to change the law. Regulation 261/2004 has been law since, er, 2004. Though Sturgeon in 2009 extended this to delays, it's hardly a recent change is it?

I assume that the "Customer Relations" people are briefed by lawyers but they do then put their own interpretation on the law. I suppose the stock response of "It's Extraordinary Circumstances" is just an extreme manifestation of this. I'd be "happier" dealing with lawyers - at least they understand the significance of law vs cases, etc..

David_e

MrTito9 wrote: »

My flight out to Ibiza was delayed by over 5 hours, if that wasn't bad enough my return flight was delayed by over 6 hours!

But can this work with both directions of travel?

Two delayed flights so absolutely two claims potentially.

Start your research here:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-delays

Plenty of help will be offered with specific questions. there are a lot of knowledgeable people on here. (I'm not one of them!)

laticsforlife

MrTito9 wrote: »

I shall never be travelling Thomson again.

My flight out to Ibiza was delayed by over 5 hours, if that wasn't bad enough my return flight was delayed by over 6 hours!

Question (sorry, but the information might be buried within the previous 89 pages). What kind of compensation am I entitled to? And will they pay up?

I've seen that for a delay of over 5 hours you are entitled to 250euros. But can this work with both directions of travel?

I am really surprised this airline hasn't gone out of business yet.

In the very first instance I would,

a) keep anything you have about your booking and travel including your tickets and boarding passes if you kept them (maybe your baggage tags are still on your bags which help prove you were on at least one of those flights
b) Find Thomsons EU delay claim form and send two of them in, one for each flight (you may need to trawl around to get this or ring Thomson

Its highly unlikely that T will admit there was a fault that was not Extraordinary Circumstances (EC for short), but as a previous 44 pages attest, they are 99% of the time wrong in that suggestion.

If you want to pursue this it will take some effort on your part, and likely some cost (Court fees etc that you get back when T give up or lose in Court), as T won't just roll over and pay up, as if they did they would have a flight load (150+) of customers claiming €250 each way, which as you correctly point out would put them out of business.

Your alternative is to employ one of the ambulance-chasing lawyer-type firms who will do all this for you and take around half the money for the pleasure (OK they're not quite as bad as PPI, but essentially you could do their job yourself if you had a mind to).

It is honestly worth taking a couple of hours to plough through the preceding 44 pages, to see what is involved, and whether it is something you want to do.

Do you have any information as to what caused your delays? I doubt it will be EC, but it is always interesting to hear the same old excuses being touted by T (it amazes me that they have any planes in the air the number of EC's they seem to be hit by)

mumoftwomonkeys

Hi, hoping one of you lovely people will be able to help me as I have been given different advice to that I have read so far on this thread.

Basically, my claim relates to a 22 hour delay (less than 2years ago) with Thomson flying from Palma to Gatwick. When we arrived at the airport,there were already a plane load of passengers from the previous scheduled flightfrom Palma to Gatwick there who had been delayed for 3 hours due to a technical problem with their aircraft.Thomson in their wisdom decided to use the aircraft scheduled for our flight totake them instead while we waited a little while (which turned into 22 hours)for the part to come from the UK to fix their aircraft to fly our flight.

I attempted to claim at the time which was obviously denied and tried again earlier this year when the law was changed and I received the standard ‘extraordinary circumstances’ letter. I called them to argue this as there was nothing wrong with ouraircraft, it was Thomson’s choice to give it to other passengers, and even ifit was something wrong with our plane it wouldn’t be extra-ordinary circumstances anyway. They didn’t entertain me at all and basically said ‘ we’ve looked into it and this is whatwe’re saying, if you don’t like it feel free to take it further’.

Obviously, I am not going to let it lie! I called the CAA and they said because the flight didn’t originate in the UK they couldn’t investigate it and that I should send all the details to the Spanish body Agencia Estatal de Seguridad A!rea for them to investigate.

I tried calling to use the legal services cover under my home insurance and they advised me to complete form http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/passengers/air/doc/complain_form/eu_complaint_form_en.pdf and send it to that same body and to Thomson.

I’m a bit stuck now as having read through the thread I believe you are doing different things to this. Can anyone help?

Thank you

Vauban

mumoftwomonkeys wrote: »

Hi, hoping one of you lovely people will be able to help me as I have been given different advice to that I have read so far on this thread.

Basically, my claim relates to a 22 hour delay (less than 2years ago) with Thomson flying from Palma to Gatwick. When we arrived at the airport,there were already a plane load of passengers from the previous scheduled flightfrom Palma to Gatwick there who had been delayed for 3 hours due to a technical problem with their aircraft.Thomson in their wisdom decided to use the aircraft scheduled for our flight totake them instead while we waited a little while (which turned into 22 hours)for the part to come from the UK to fix their aircraft to fly our flight.

I attempted to claim at the time which was obviously denied and tried again earlier this year when the law was changed and I received the standard ‘extraordinary circumstances’ letter. I called them to argue this as there was nothing wrong with ouraircraft, it was Thomson’s choice to give it to other passengers, and even ifit was something wrong with our plane it wouldn’t be extra-ordinary circumstances anyway. They didn’t entertain me at all and basically said ‘ we’ve looked into it and this is whatwe’re saying, if you don’t like it feel free to take it further’.

Obviously, I am not going to let it lie! I called the CAA and they said because the flight didn’t originate in the UK they couldn’t investigate it and that I should send all the details to the Spanish body Agencia Estatal de Seguridad A!rea for them to investigate.

I tried calling to use the legal services cover under my home insurance and they advised me to complete form http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/passengers/air/doc/complain_form/eu_complaint_form_en.pdf and send it to that same body and to Thomson.

I’m a bit stuck now as having read through the thread I believe you are doing different things to this. Can anyone help?

Thank you

I think you have exhausted your dialogue with the airline (and the form is just the standard EU-wide version of the airlines' own delay compensation forms). Filling in another one isn't going to make any difference.

The only think you can so is to take them to court by writing a Notice Before Action letter and initiating proceedings. It's less difficult that you might think, and from what you describe you've got a pretty good case (if your aircraft was substituted at the last moment that's an operational decision by the airline).

You could also go for a No Win No Fee company if you don't have the time to pursue this, but they'll take about a third of your award.

The FAQs on page one, if not yet read, have a wealth of useful info. Good luck - you won't really need it, I suspect!

laticsforlife

Vauban wrote: »

I think you have exhausted your dialogue with the airline (and the form is just the standard EU-wide version of the airlines' own delay compensation forms). Filling in another one isn't going to make any difference.

The only think you can so is to take them to court by writing a Notice Before Action letter and initiating proceedings. It's less difficult that you might think, and from what you describe you've got a pretty good case (if your aircraft was substituted at the last moment that's an operational decision by the airline).

The FAQs on page one, if not yet read, have a wealth of useful info. Good luck - you won't really need it, I suspect!

I agree - time to take action.

At least you are not stuck with the 2nd argument of 2 years vs 6 years, and are only talking about EC's.

I think it has been mentioned on plenty of occasions in this thread that knock-on effects are NOT EC's, your flight was clearly a) on time, and b) not subject to any technical fault; it was only Thomsons operational decision to fly customers home in order (which I don't have too much of a problem with, as I can imagine the riot had they been left behind whilst you lot went home!).

But what I take issue with is why it takes 22 hours to fix a plane when they could quicker and easier just fly another from the UK to one of their bigger holiday destinations in Europe to bring you home - also I previously had to land with Thomson at Palma and sit on the apron whilst they repaired something because, and I quote, Palma has the parts needed as if we flew on to Tunisia, their airport doesn't have Thomson repair facilities so our plane would have been stuck there, so it seems to me that they could have fixed it onsite quicker than they did, and becuase of the popularity of that location ought to have had plans in place for when planes break down.

Please do not give up, it will be worth it in the end.

retatco

I have been a keen observer of this thread for the last few months and I wish to thank everyone for the invaluable information I have obtained.
I am in the same process as most of you to the extent that yesterday I sent of a Request for Judgment. The 28 days of service had passed with nothing heard from Thomsons. I am aware that their defense could be in the system but Salford said I should send it.
Our flight was Gatwick to Cancun on 17/1/2009. It was delayed a few minutes short of 10hrs due to technical, a spare had to be obtained from Luton, then the crew ran out of duty time.
I'll keep you informed as to progress from here.

matt2baker

I have read ALL the posts on this thread over the past few months, and the dawning realisation is that, now I'm at the stage of sending an NBA, I may need to distinguish whether its a Delay or a Denied Boarding claim.

One of my two flight claims is for a delay before boarding, the other was a delay necessitated by getting off the aircraft having boarded it and almost taken off.

What constitutes a Denied Boarding then? I thought these were both just straightforward "delays".......