Ask Atos Healthcare disability assessment questions

SEE

sicknotethefirst wrote: »

If that's the only answer I am going to get then I think it's a very poor one!!!!


I sent in my ESA50 with all my med reports etc I was then contacted by Atos with an appointment, I spoke to my Gp about it and he wrote another report in which he said in the last para Given the circumstances I am somewhat surprised that he is being called for a face to face medical assessment and wonder if the necessary facts have been made available to the medical team.


In view of this I then asked Atos for the reason for a face to face assessment and they replied with what the nurse said who looked at my EAS50 and any other available evidence “I am unable to advise on the evidence held. The case will need to be referred for assessment”

Just to give you a short insight here is a little which the Hcp could look at...

Atos as you are fully aware I cannot leave home until approximately 2.30-3.00 pm because of the medication I take (Furosemide) which you obviously know nothing about? So here is a little information about the drug. Amiloride/Furosemide (Am-il-or-ride hi-droh-clor-ride/Few-roh-sem-mide) is a medicine which is used in nephrosis, treatment of cardiac failure, ascites and situations where removing water from the body is necessary. The onset of action after oral administration is within one hour, and the diuresis lasts about 6-8 hours.

Some of the information provided..........

Ischaemic heart disease


My first heart attack was 1999 followed by others in 2002, I had a quadruple bypass 20 January 2005 my left ventricle now has poor function and subsequent considerable heart failure. In 2005 I developed Diabetes which I currently have under control. I take various medication inc Furusomide and Ramerpril both designed to make me shed fluid which requires me to have to pee regularly for 6-8 hours. I can not omit this medication as it will compromise my underlying medical conditions. 2010 a further heart attack and 2011 another heart attack.


January 2012 I had to have a stent added to one of my leg arteries because of poor blood flow to my right foot



In November 2012 I had an MRI cardiac perfusion study which has now led to me having to have an Angiogram with the hope that I can have an Angioplasty in March 2013, I was told by my consultant Dr **** that a further bypass wasn't an option because the risk was too high with my heart being in a poor condition.


February 2013 I had a CT scan to my head because of possible poor blood flow which causes me some memory loss on a daily basis. The results I am waiting for.


I also have carpal tunnel disease in both hands and have to wear mits to help relieve the pain.


I would be very grateful if you could let me know why the nurse in question felt that she didn't have enough information and that a face to face assessment is required.

Can you tell me why anyone with any medical knowledge would make a statement like this when all the information was in front of them and easy to understand including reports from my consultant, my Gp, along with medical history.

OMG! I hope the press are looking in:( As I wrote earlier, it is quite obvious that some people need no assessment whatsoever given their proved medical conditions. Why then is the government wasting taxpayers money allowing this company to investigate what CLEARLY does not need investigation. ATOS are making money on assessments that don't even need to be done.

Where does one go to look at the accounts of ATOS and its work practices? I think more people should be talking to their MPs!

sparkycat2

When do you expect to start doing ESA assessments for those claiming Severe Disability Allowance in the Thames Valley Area?

Do you have any policy as far as contacting someone's doctor before contacting the claimant in cases where the person suffers from severe mental illness, those who suffer from bouts of psychosis. Due to possible detrimental effects on their health or incapability of the claimant due to ill health?

In respect to people with severe mental illnesses. What is your policy as far as deciding if calling in for interview is not required? Due to possible detrimental effects on their health, incapability due to ill health, inappropriateness of face-to-face assessment in determining if the person would qualify under special circumstances due to danger to self or others, as I assume that would be reliant on medical evidence.

How frequent or likely does the danger to self or others have to be for the special circumstance rules to apply? Considering the danger is known, has occurred repeatedly in the past, and the danger is substantial life-threatening to self and others.

I think for DLA the danger only has to be known and substantial and not too remote a possibly. That is because it has occurred repeatedly in the past and would be expected to occur in the future and is known to be substantial life-threatening that the frequency is immaterial. Do ATOS take into account other benefit awards as indicative? For example Severe Disablement Allowance and Disability Living Allowance High Rate Care with Carer's Allowance in payment.

SEE

sparkycat2 wrote: »

When do you expect to start doing ESA assessments for those claiming Severe Disability Allowance in the Thames Valley Area?

Do you have any policy as far as contacting someone's doctor before contacting the claimant in cases where the person suffers from severe mental illness, those who suffer from bouts of psychosis. Due to possible detrimental effects on their health or incapability of the claimant due to ill health?

In respect to people with severe mental illnesses. What is your policy as far as deciding if calling in for interview is not required? Due to possible detrimental effects on their health, incapability due to ill health, inappropriateness of face-to-face assessment in determining if the person would qualify under special circumstances due to danger to self or others, as I assume that would be reliant on medical evidence.

How frequent or likely does the danger to self or others have to be for the special circumstance rules to apply? Considering the danger is known, has occurred repeatedly in the past, and the danger is substantial life-threatening to self and others.

I think for DLA the danger only has to be known and substantial and not too remote a possibly. That is because it has occurred repeatedly in the past and would be expected to occur in the future and is known to be substantial life-threatening that the frequency is immaterial. Do ATOS take into account other benefit awards as indicative? For example Severe Disablement Allowance and Disability Living Allowance High Rate Care with Carer's Allowance in payment.

I've already asked similar with no response. I want to know who at ATOS is legally reliable should a mentally ill patient lash out at an interview, or in public on the way to such an interview and also if they would be imprisoned, or held under section because of the demands of ATOS. If you know of such a person, or persons. They should be gathered together to sue ATOS for removing their liberty and placing others in danger.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

I think ATOS and MSE are in league together,they both advertise each other.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

sicknotethefirst wrote: »

An interesting recording here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG9a22hbrcY&feature=player_embedded

sparkycat2 wrote: »

When do you expect to start doing ESA assessments for those claiming Severe Disability Allowance in the Thames Valley Area?

Do you have any policy as far as contacting someone's doctor before contacting the claimant in cases where the person suffers from severe mental illness, those who suffer from bouts of psychosis. Due to possible detrimental effects on their health or incapability of the claimant due to ill health?

In respect to people with severe mental illnesses. What is your policy as far as deciding if calling in for interview is not required? Due to possible detrimental effects on their health, incapability due to ill health, inappropriateness of face-to-face assessment in determining if the person would qualify under special circumstances due to danger to self or others, as I assume that would be reliant on medical evidence.

How frequent or likely does the danger to self or others have to be for the special circumstance rules to apply? Considering the danger is known, has occurred repeatedly in the past, and the danger is substantial life-threatening to self and others.

I think for DLA the danger only has to be known and substantial and not too remote a possibly. That is because it has occurred repeatedly in the past and would be expected to occur in the future and is known to be substantial life-threatening that the frequency is immaterial. Do ATOS take into account other benefit awards as indicative? For example Severe Disablement Allowance and Disability Living Allowance High Rate Care with Carer's Allowance in payment.

ATOS do not care wether someone takes or attempts to take their own life,listen to the link in my first quote above, when the doctor/nurse says towards the end of the tape,when the carer says "he tried to kill himself" the nurse says,under the direction of the ATOS rep on here "that is not my concern"

sparkycat2

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv wrote: »

ATOS do not care wether someone takes or attempts to take their own life,listen to the link in my first quote above, when the doctor/nurse says towards the end of the tape,when the carer says "he tried to kill himself" the nurse says,under the direction of the ATOS rep on here "that is not my concern"

The audio you linked to was of someone with adjustment disorder who had been admitted for one week due to suicidal thoughts and was under the specialist care of a psychiatrist.

I would assume asking someone with adjustment disorder about their mental health problem is a bad idea. I would also assume asking someone who is undergoing specialist treatment because they are a suicide risk, about killing themselves is a bad idea. Unless the person asking is medically qualified to diagnose and treat such conditions. The assessor does appear to have had callous disregard for the claimant.

However, what I am asking was specifically if there is any policy for those with fluctuating conditions of severe mental illnesses, those with Schizophrenia, Bipolar I with psychosis. With a medical history documenting repeated bouts of psychosis and repeated long-term hospitalization. Who may appear fine at a face-to-face assessment and would probably not score enough points. But who might be eligible for support group under the special circumstance criteria.

I want to know about any policy on not contacting people directly but their doctor instead. About not calling people for assessment but doing it on medical evidence instead. About how decisions on who is eligible for support group under the special circumstance criteria, are made. As to danger to self and others and if it is good enough that the danger is known to be substanial life-threatening and known to have occurred repeatedly in the past and be expected to occur again, or if the danger has to be frequent or triggered by attending work related activity.

Igotothefootofourstairs wrote: »

Well if it's not their concern ... perhaps they will be concerned when one of these stressed and ill people takes the life of the assessor... and it will happen sooner or later....:T

If it does it would be a tragedy not something to rejoice.

FTW

Igotothefootofourstairs wrote: »

Well if it's not their concern ... perhaps they will be concerned when one of these stressed and ill people takes the life of the assessor... and it will happen sooner or later....:T

It's not something to be celebrating, but yes, all it would take is for someone's 'wrong buttons' to be pressed.

I believe that if Atoss' long-standing contemptuous, unaccountable attitude towards 'patients' continues, then they're inviting a very serious situation upon themselves.

Muttleythefrog

sparkycat2 wrote: »

However, what I am asking was specifically if there is any policy for those with fluctuating conditions of severe mental illnesses, those with Schizophrenia, Bipolar I with psychosis. With a medical history documenting repeated bouts of psychosis and repeated long-term hospitalization. Who may appear fine at a face-to-face assessment and would probably not score enough points. But who might be eligible for support group under the special circumstance criteria.

I want to know about any policy on not contacting people directly but their doctor instead. About not calling people for assessment but doing it on medical evidence instead. About how decisions on who is eligible for support group under the special circumstance criteria, are made. As to danger to self and others and if it is good enough that the danger is known to be substanial life-threatening and known to have occurred repeatedly in the past and be expected to occur again, or if the danger has to be frequent or triggered by attending work related activity.

The special circumstance criteria is there regarding posing significant risk to any person if found capable of work (WRAG qualification) or work related activity (Support group qualification). But the application of it is probably as scientific as with the rest of the determinations. As previously mentioned in the thread I've had all 3 scenarios (medical, paperwork plus GP form, paperwork only) arise to give the same determination in my case. I had a face to face medical for new claim and based on behaviour and specialist assessment they advised I met the descriptor in question for support group. I don't think this judgement was well founded. At first reassessment I sent more supporting evidence and proposed to agree with the previous ATOS medical report... ATOS HC determined sufficient information may be available with GP report ESA113 completion and that duly occurred. The GP report actually contradicted the ATOS recommendation but their advice claimed it supported opinion the descriptor applied. This time around.. my second reassessment.. sent a barrage of reports etc with ESA50 and they advised without contacted GP that I met the descriptor.. based on previous ATOS reports and other specialist reports plus ESA50. I'm not sure any report actually supports a conclusion of the descritpr applying but naturally I'm not going to challenge that but rather keep my mush shut.

So in short... other than what you'll find stated in the handbook for the WCA regarding this matter... it's just a game. I can only conclude that at medical what I said and how I said it disturbed the nurse conducting my medical... she probably has never met someone like me who likes to dice with some very dark concepts as part of my natural daily experience... plus I was acting relatively abnormally due to the situation which is a very 'false' one and I reacted badly to having been lied to in a FOI request that stated I would be examined by a male GP and not a female nurse (hence my raising of related question to the ATOS rep)... a recipe for inaccuracy perhaps. From that the tag has stuck...with me of course applying a bit pressure to keep it there to keep my life simpler.

Handbook. http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-handbook.pdf
Refer pages 34/35. Pg 119

sicknotethefirst

HAS THE ATOS REP LEFT THE BUILDING

All of our HCPs receive comprehensive specialist training in disability assessment and are approved by the DWP Chief Medical Adviser on behalf of the Secretary of State. The training for nurses is accredited by the University of Derby. We can’t comment on specific cases on this thread but please contact us if you would like to discuss this further.

If that's the only answer I am going to get then I think it's a very poor one!!!!


I sent in my ESA50 with all my med reports etc I was then contacted by Atos with an appointment, I spoke to my Gp about it and he wrote another report in which he said in the last para Given the circumstances I am somewhat surprised that he is being called for a face to face medical assessment and wonder if the necessary facts have been made available to the medical team.


In view of this I then asked Atos for the reason for a face to face assessment and they replied with what the nurse said who looked at my EAS50 and any other available evidence “I am unable to advise on the evidence held. The case will need to be referred for assessment”

Just to give you a short insight here is a little which the Hcp could look at...

Atos as you are fully aware I cannot leave home until approximately 2.30-3.00 pm because of the medication I take (Furosemide) which you obviously know nothing about? So here is a little information about the drug. Amiloride/Furosemide (Am-il-or-ride hi-droh-clor-ride/Few-roh-sem-mide) is a medicine which is used in nephrosis, treatment of cardiac failure, ascites and situations where removing water from the body is necessary. The onset of action after oral administration is within one hour, and the diuresis lasts about 6-8 hours.

Some of the information provided..........

Ischaemic heart disease


My first heart attack was 1999 followed by others in 2002, I had a quadruple bypass 20 January 2005 my left ventricle now has poor function and subsequent considerable heart failure. In 2005 I developed Diabetes which I currently have under control. I take various medication inc Furusomide and Ramerpril both designed to make me shed fluid which requires me to have to pee regularly for 6-8 hours. I can not omit this medication as it will compromise my underlying medical conditions. 2010 a further heart attack and 2011 another heart attack.


January 2012 I had to have a stent added to one of my leg arteries because of poor blood flow to my right foot



In November 2012 I had an MRI cardiac perfusion study which has now led to me having to have an Angiogram with the hope that I can have an Angioplasty in March 2013, I was told by my consultant Dr **** that a further bypass wasn't an option because the risk was too high with my heart being in a poor condition.


February 2013 I had a CT scan to my head because of possible poor blood flow which causes me some memory loss on a daily basis. The results I am waiting for.


I also have carpal tunnel disease in both hands and have to wear mits to help relieve the pain.


I would be very grateful if you could let me know why the nurse in question felt that she didn't have enough information and that a face to face assessment is required.

Can you tell me why anyone with any medical knowledge would make a statement like this when all the information was in front of them and easy to understand including reports from my consultant, my Gp, along with medical history.

Atos_Healthcare_representative

sicknotethefirst wrote: »

I would be very grateful if you could let me know why the nurse in question felt that she didn't have enough information and that a face to face assessment is required.

Can you tell me why anyone with any medical knowledge would make a statement like this when all the information was in front of them and easy to understand including reports from my consultant, my Gp, along with medical history.

Hi sicknotethefirst

I can’t discuss your referral on here. All of the circumstances, including information that was available about treatment and capability, will be looked at as part of the complaint that you have said you’ve raised, and you will be provided with a response directly.