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USA Warns Cameron not to leave EU
Comments
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GeorgeHowell wrote: »
.. the associated baggage that comes with the EU like the ECHR and the human rights farce.
Why do the anti EUers keep on getting this wrong and try to confuse the general public?
The European Convention on Human Rights has nothing to do with and predates the EU. It comes from the Council of Europe founded in the 1940's, a cold war grouping with the UK a founder member. The UK was highly influential in the wording of the convention, signed it in 1950 and granted its citizens the right to appeal to the European Commission on Human Rights in 1966. So if we left the EU we would still be bound by the ECHR. One can envisage what the effect of leaving the convention would have on the UK's attempts to lecture foreign nations on their human rights.
Suggest you try harder.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Which is more than outweighed by increase in GDP we have as a result of EU membership.
If we are to stay in a free trade pact, businesses will need to continue complying with EU regulations.
You think Labour wouldn't have banned incandescent bulbs regardless of whether we were in the EU?:rotfl:
What a silly and uninformed statement.
The EHCR has nothing to do with EU membership, and leaving the EU would not exempt Britain from the EHCR.
The European Court of Human Rights is a Council of Europe organisation, not an EU organisation.
The Council of Europe is an international organization promoting co-operation between all countries of Europe in the areas of legal standards, human rights, democratic development, the rule of law and cultural co-operation. It was founded in 1949, has 47 member states with some 800 million citizens, and is an entirely separate body from the European Union (EU), which has only 27 member states.
Are you now proposing we should leave the Council of Europe as well as the EU, or instead of the EU?
And could you point me to any pledge from the Tories, Labour or the Lib Dems offering a referendum on COE membership? As without that, we stay in the ECHR regardless of EU membership.
I would have thought a seasoned Eurosceptic such as yourself would know that....
Why?
I'm a Tory voter. Can't stand Labour.
Doesn't change the fact that we're miles better off in Europe than outside it.
Those are all your opinions and take on various matters. Fair enough but they're not facts, and I disagree with all of them (except the bit about Labour), including being able to withdraw from ECHR control if we wanted to. You have your opinions and I have mine, and we don't agree. No point in keep harping on about the same things repetitively.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »When the referendum comes you will have your vote, along with everybody else.
Ahem....GeorgeHowell wrote: »Comments based on claims of clairvoyance do not really add much to this discussion.
:whistle:“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »Those are all your opinions and take on various matters. Fair enough but they're not facts, and I disagree with all of them (except the bit about Labour), including being able to withdraw from ECHR control if we wanted to. You have your opinions and I have mine, and we don't agree. No point in keep harping on about the same things repetitively.
No, it's a fact that the EHCR is not an EU institution.
It's also a fact that withdrawing from the EU will not remove us from EHCR jurisdiction or treaty obligations.
So again, I'll ask you, how does leaving the EU remove us from our treaty obligations as a member of the Council of Europe and the jurisdiction of the EHCR?“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Ahem....
:whistle:
We see posts on here banging on about reforming the EU from within and if we left we would have no influence.
Just out of interest what reform has there been to the CAP? what reform has there been to the Common fisheries policy? We are in the EU and we have had no influence at all for the simple reason that France and to a lesser extent Germany don't want reform.
Why has the problem of fraud not been addressed and the auditors haven't signed off the accounts as being accurate for 13 yrs Hamish, are you happy to keep papering over the problems ?........ I have said it before, if the EU was a plc Ltd company in this country it would have been shut fown by the SFO years ago.
Can you please post some evidence when you post your "Facts".0 -
leveller2911 wrote: »Can you please post some evidence when you post your "Facts".
Are you trying to deny that the EHCR is not an EU institution, and that leaving the EU does not remove us form EHCR jurisdiction?
Do you really need me to post a link, or are you capable of using google?“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
leveller2911 wrote: »We see posts on here banging on about reforming the EU from within and if we left we would have no influence.
Just out of interest what reform has there been to the CAP? what reform has there been to the Common fisheries policy? We are in the EU and we have had no influence at all for the simple reason that France and to a lesser extent Germany don't want reform.
Do you remember "set aside"?0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Are you trying to deny that the EHCR is not an EU institution, and that leaving the EU does not remove us form EHCR jurisdiction?
Do you really need me to post a link, or are you capable of using google?
I wasn't asking about EHCR and you know it , my post was very clear and you failed dismally to answer it.
At least Politicians make an effort to spin facts you can't even do that. I guess your in denial, If you can't see a problem then one doesn't exist.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »No, it's a fact that the EHCR is not an EU institution.
It's also a fact that withdrawing from the EU will not remove us from EHCR jurisdiction or treaty obligations.leveller2911 wrote: »Can you please post some evidence when you post your "Facts".HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Are you trying to deny that the EHCR is not an EU institution, and that leaving the EU does not remove us form EHCR jurisdiction?leveller2911 wrote: »I wasn't asking about EHCR and you know it , .
Seems pretty straightforward to me....“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Do you remember "set aside"?
Yes and?????
Quote: By 2013, the share of traditional CAP spending is projected to decrease significantly to 32%, following a decrease in real terms in the current financing period. In contrast, the amounts for the EU's regional support represented 17% of the EU budget in 1988, but will more than double to reach almost 36% in 2013.
It hasn't happend yet and probably won't. Yet another chance for the EU to fail to deliver.0
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