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USA Warns Cameron not to leave EU

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Comments

  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    pqrdef wrote: »
    The EU has made it clear that we don't get free trade without a level playing field. And their idea of a level playing field goes a lot further than electrical regulations. It includes things like working hours, maternity pay and potentially taxes. In other words, UK manufacturers don't get to exploit any "unfair" advantages over French and German rivals.

    The difference is, we'd no longer have any say in defining the level playing field, and with no threat of veto we'd no longer be able to negotiate any opt-outs.

    So how does anybody else get anything into the EU then.

    Why are is the EU quite happy to consume rafts of goods and services produced/provided in countries that don't really give two hoots about the social elements you point out?

    I take it they happily consume apple products for instance? Do they buy clothing from the Asian sub continent?
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • pqrdef
    pqrdef Posts: 4,552 Forumite
    So how does anybody else get anything into the EU then.

    Why are is the EU quite happy to consume rafts of goods and services produced/provided in countries that don't really give two hoots about the social elements you point out?

    I take it they happily consume apple products for instance? Do they buy clothing from the Asian sub continent?
    That's not free trade, it's regulated trade, and it's obviously not regulated to the advantage of the manufacturers on the outside, which would be us. You want us to emulate Indian sweatshops so we can sell to Europe?
    "It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis
  • A._Badger
    A._Badger Posts: 5,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    So how does anybody else get anything into the EU then.

    Why are is the EU quite happy to consume rafts of goods and services produced/provided in countries that don't really give two hoots about the social elements you point out?

    I take it they happily consume apple products for instance? Do they buy clothing from the Asian sub continent?

    Of course they do. The dreary predictability of the Europhiles is beyond parody. All they have to offer is scare stories of the evils that will befall us if we stood on our own two feet.

    The elephant in the room, of course, is Norway.

    As for the US, it has been State Dept policy to encourage British membership of the EU for decades. The CIA even helped fund the original European Movement (look it up). This has at least as much to do with the traditional trade and influence rivalry between the UK and USA as it does any trading advantage it affords US-owned companies.

    It suits America just fine for UK companies to be handicapped in international trade.

    As one would expect, Dr Richard North, who knows more about the EU than most, has a view http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=83491.
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    pqrdef wrote: »
    That's not free trade, it's regulated trade, and it's obviously not regulated to the advantage of the manufacturers on the outside, which would be us. You want us to emulate Indian sweatshops so we can sell to Europe?

    No but is hypocrisy to create a socialist bloc with regulations and compliance but continue to buy from states that do not offer the same protection.

    If it is a case of sinking with the EU or cutting free, then losing some of that regulation would be a risk worth taking.

    I wonder how many sweat shops exist in this country , with a degree of protection, and in the wider EU?
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    edited 10 January 2013 at 5:13PM
    A._Badger wrote: »
    Of course they do. The dreary predictability of the Europhiles is beyond parody. All they have to offer is scare stories of the evils that will befall us if we stood on our own two feet.

    The elephant in the room, of course, is Norway.

    As for the US, it has been State Dept policy to encourage British membership of the EU for decades. The CIA even helped fund the original European Movement (look it up). This has at least as much to do with the traditional trade and influence rivalry between the UK and USA as it does any trading advantage it affords US-owned companies.

    It suits America just fine for UK companies to be handicapped in international trade.

    As one would expect, Dr Richard North, who knows more about the EU than most, has a view http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=83491.

    I concur with your view on the USA they only have their own interest at heart. Interesting article.
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • wotsthat
    wotsthat Posts: 11,325 Forumite
    So how does anybody else get anything into the EU then.

    If a company makes Jammy Dodgers in Germany then they can be sold anywhere in the EU without the hindrance of import checks. If those Jammy Dodgers are made in the USA then the factory will need to be on an approved factory list (cost), the consignment will need health certification (cost) and there will be import checks (cost). The EU won't accept that Jammy Dodgers being made to US standards is acceptable - the factory will have to meet all the requirements of a factory in Germany. If that doesn't put off the American Jammy Dodger maker then there will probably be an import tariff added to make them less competitive.

    The German government has a say in what standards should apply to Jammy Dodgers in both the EU and in the US (if the US want to enter the lucrative EU biscuit market). The US have no say or influence over Jammy Dodger regulation in the EU but still have to comply to trade.

    It's possible that the UK could leave the EU and enter into a bi-lateral agreement to allow easier trade (like Switzerland) but I rather suspect that if the UK left things would be made as difficult as possible and there would be little we could do about it other than lodge a complaint with the WTO.
  • grizzly1911
    grizzly1911 Posts: 9,965 Forumite
    wotsthat wrote: »
    If a company makes Jammy Dodgers in Germany then they can be sold anywhere in the EU without the hindrance of import checks. If those Jammy Dodgers are made in the USA then the factory will need to be on an approved factory list (cost), the consignment will need health certification (cost) and there will be import checks (cost). The EU won't accept that Jammy Dodgers being made to US standards is acceptable - the factory will have to meet all the requirements of a factory in Germany. If that doesn't put off the American Jammy Dodger maker then there will probably be an import tariff added to make them less competitive.

    The German government has a say in what standards should apply to Jammy Dodgers in both the EU and in the US (if the US want to enter the lucrative EU biscuit market). The US have no say or influence over Jammy Dodger regulation in the EU but still have to comply to trade.

    It's possible that the UK could leave the EU and enter into a bi-lateral agreement to allow easier trade (like Switzerland) but I rather suspect that if the UK left things would be made as difficult as possible and there would be little we could do about it other than lodge a complaint with the WTO.

    Is this protectionism allowed under WTO?

    Surely Jammy Dodgers would be made in practically the same way, you wouldn't want to put your domestic market or anywhere else in the world at risk.

    Do foxconn meet all these specifications or do they simply pick and choose who they want to apply these regulations to?

    Surely it would hurt Germany just as much if we added tariffs to their cars, washing machines,cookers, kitchens?

    Perhap it would be better to bypass europe and deal direct with those areas of the world that are growing and can afford to pay.
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • GeorgeHowell
    GeorgeHowell Posts: 2,739 Forumite
    Assuming that this character who made the statement was authorised to leak it, then it must be a really big deal to the US. That would explain a lot as to why successive governments of both colours have kow-towed to the EU and been so reluctant to stem the tide of federalism, undermining our democratic integrity and sovereignty in the process. Governments of both colours are s**t-scared to go against the US on matters that the latter sees as a big deal. Blair even took us to war on extremely dodgy grounds rather than say no.
    No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.

    The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

    Margaret Thatcher
  • leveller2911
    leveller2911 Posts: 8,061 Forumite
    edited 10 January 2013 at 8:15PM
    pqrdef wrote: »
    The EU has made it clear that we don't get free trade without a level playing field. And their idea of a level playing field goes a lot further than electrical regulations. It includes things like working hours, maternity pay and potentially taxes. In other words, UK manufacturers don't get to exploit any "unfair" advantages over French and German rivals.


    However 67% of French and 52% of German are NOT complying with new EU rules for animal welfare so where is this "level " playing field?.. Seems they have an advantage over UK producers.Animal welfare is just one example, countries such as Spain and France also flout EU fisheries policy.We don't have a level playing field now and we haven't left yet.

    http://www.npa-uk.org.uk/Pages/Press_Releases.html
  • Linton
    Linton Posts: 18,532 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Hung up my suit!
    I concur with your view on the USA they only have their own interest at heart.

    Of course but if our interests dont coincide with theirs political and economic reality means its more our bad luck than theirs.
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