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UK-passport.net
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Just to reinforce what you now know, here is a thread started less than six hours after you asked that question:Use your brains to 'think'; Why such a similar exist for DVLA while renewing driving license ?. You will get answers to the questions that you are asking me. LOL :-)
PS: Edit, actually it does!
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Good.Agreed. Companies obviously are not breaking the law, simply becuase there is no law. There are no rules/laws or regulations around who can provide a passport or driving license service in UK. Service could also be traded 'online, which is this case..
At least we've established that you agree that these companies are not doing anything illegal.
And the relevance of this is?The reason why I am quoting hpuse' dyslexic example is becuase it is statistically known fact that 5% of adult UK population are severely dyslexic.
I think if a dyslexic person took one of these companies to court, they would stand no chance at all of winning.If a dyslexic person takes this SEO 'passport servicing' company to the court, do you think they stand a chance chance of winning the case?.
Will the SEO company argue in the court that their service are meant for only personals that is believed to be of good health ? That would be a joke, wouldn't it ?
On what basis would they be found guilty?
We've already agreed that they aren't breaking the law.
Being dyslexic (and I'm not in any way demeaning the condition) does not give you any more protection than someone who can read better.
I can't see what the joke is.
It's one of the most bizarre suggestions I've ever read.Simply becuase there is no law does not mean that it is a safe ground to play with websites of this nature. Targetting vulnerablity is a socio-criminologic offence, it is an easy job for a average smart lawyer to turn things against these companies. So no law does not always means that these companies are safe. I hope you go the point.
What does socio-criminology have to do with it.
There's no crime if it's not illegal.
Book me a place in court when some average smart lawyer decides to take one of these companies to court.
I'll bring popcorn.0 -
The reason why I am quoting hpuse' dyslexic example is becuase it is statistically known fact that 5% of adult UK population are severely dyslexic.
Well, your statistically known fact is incorrect.
All of the recognised bodies in the UK (British dyslexia Association and Dyslexia action UK) think that it's actually 4%.
It might not sound a big difference, but in order to help your argument you have increased the number of people affected by 20% (or to put it another way, over 590,000 adults in the UK)0 -
What is not illegal today doesn't mean that the act I am doing today will not be a deemed as crime tomorrow.
It is very important to understand that. That is why I personally think it only takes an average smart lawyer with couple of cases like these. Reason being, it is easy to prove the act is illegal than vice verca.
What on earth does the possibility of something maybe being deemed illegal at some future date have to do with something that is happening now, and why would any "average smart lawyer" want to take on a case when they are fully aware that no laws have been broken.
Any "average smart lawyer" would also know that there is no need for anyone to prove that an act isn't illegal. The onus is placed on proving that a law has been broken.
Laws get amended and new laws brought in all the time but the only laws that affect businesses and consumers are those that in power at the present.
Writing about something that may or may not happen in the future is totally pointless and simply muddies the waters for no good reason.0 -
Chaps... hpuse, pollycat, shaun ...again
What is not illegal today doesn't mean that the act I am doing today will not be a deemed as crime tomorrow.
It is very important to understand that. That is why I personally think it only takes an average smart lawyer with couple of cases like these. Reason being, it is easy to prove the act is illegal than vice verca. Basically its deception to propagate beliefs by targetting individual cirumstance of the victims. That will be the key matter to consider in a court of law. Do your research, there are plenty of cases similar to this.
I understand that today is today (not tomorrow).
Therefore, these websites are currently not breaking the law.
I am struggling to understand how an average smart lawyer would be able to prove differently - as the law stands at present.
Maybe you can post links to similar cases.
Do you have an example of an average smart lawyer who has taken one of these companies to court and won?
As a reminder, we're talking about companies who charge for a free service (or charge for a so-called value-add service on top of the standard fee) such as EHIC, passport renewal, booking driving tests, ESTA applicationsAlso note, these SEO websites uses the same 'templates' as original DVLA and IPS to give the same 'look an feel', that could be deemend as an attempt to deceive general public.
Of course it's an attempt to deceive the general public.
They've survived (by adapting to bring their websites within the letter of the law - if not the spirit of the law) for quite a few years.I don't think they stand a chance to survive? Does anyone one else think otherwise, I am not sure!
In fact, there seems to be even more companies springing up.
So, sadly, I do think they stand a pretty good chance of survival.
Until the law is changed - assuming it can be - to stop them.
Yes, we agree they are not illegal today.
Ok, once again I repeat developing, hosting and SEO targetting done by these websites are not illegal today. So yes, they are not commiting a crime today Importantly, that does not mean that the same act will not be deemend as a crime in a future date. (so please make sure you quote that way when repeating legality of this for the sake of other future posters that will frequent these forums )
Why do I need to quote 'that way when repeating legality of this for the sake of other future posters that will frequent these forums )'?
Posts are dated and what I write is accurate on the date that I write it.PS: I specialise in cybercrimes since the last 7 years and to be honest I have never seen a business who has made millions by deception and SEO vulnerability targetting. Hence I take this stance for the average Joe who comes here as a victim. If you work or has an affiliation with a business of this type, you would probably disagree - hey, but that's fair enough :-)
So how much money do you think these companies are making?
I have no affiliation with any of these companies (and never have) so I do not disagree with you.
For the record, I think these companies are the pits for preying on people who get caught out by using them instead of the 'proper' website, whether it's because they were rushing and didn't pay attention or they weren't computer-savvy.
I know a couple of friends who've been caught out by fake EHIC websites.
I've helped one to get a refund.
But the fact remains that as long as they are not breaking the law - and they aren't breaking the law as of today 22nd December 2013 @ 11:45 - they will continue to catch people out.0 -
Are you talking about the websites that are under discussion in this thread? i.e. the passport renewal ones?The answer to yours is below:
Host a website that sells pirated Microsoft software with SEO targetting. How long do you think that will survive for ?- 5 to 10 days max before it gets taken down?
If so, you need to be aware that they have survived for a lot more than 10 days.
If you're not talking about these passport renewal websites, it's irrelevant and, as shaun from africa has already said, just muddying the waters.
If they last 2-3 years, it will be very lucrative for them.Host a website that 'spoofs' a goverment service by adding a 40% premium, importantly that is not bound by any law/regulation. I will bet it will survive for 2-3 years before the system slowly moves giving time for their bosses to employ solicitors to cover the a$$es !
But it's still currently - as of today - legal.
Why do you insist in talking about what will happen in the future?
It's the here and now that is affecting people.So where do you want me to put my money on, shaun from Afrcia ?
I still want to invest in a business that remains legal :-) hahaha.... Your defense on legality is indeed laughable !
You may put your money wherever you choose.
Who mentioned investing in these companies?
As for laughable, your posts are certainly amusing me. :rotfl:0 -
The answer to yours is below:
Host a website that sells pirated Microsoft software with SEO targetting. How long do you think that will survive for ?- 5 to 10 days max before it gets taken down?
Host a website that 'spoofs' a goverment service by adding a 40% premium, importantly that is not bound by any law/regulation. I will bet it will survive for 2-3 years before the system slowly moves giving time for their bosses to employ solicitors to cover the a$$es !
So where do you want me to put my money on, shaun from Afrcia ?
I still want to invest in a business that remains legal :-) hahaha.... Your defense on legality is indeed laughable !
Where do you get your ideas from?
Of course the websites in question are bound by legislation.
They are being run by UK based companies (and I've already posted the registered addresses of those 3 companies) and are bound by UK legislation.
Just because you can't find any proof that the companies are actually breaking any laws, you then have to resort to half baked attempts at insults.
It is not my defence on legality that is laughable.
What is laughable is the fact that you don't appear to understand what legality actually means, which for someone stating that they specialise in cybercrime is very worrying.
These companies might not be ethical but as the law currently stands, they are legal.0 -
That is exactly the sentiments reflected by people holding and showing the 'safely legal' placard (hpuse, pollycat, shaun et all ).
Please do not quote my handle in the list of people above.
I am always against and will be against these online companies even if they are remain legal in the next million years to come.
I have no respect to those who keep emphasing to others in a public forum that these companies and their operations are completely legal in UK. I think you find that often happening when conscience strikes, that is why I say it is a state of mind.Spoofing and mimicking a government website and providing a service is not a crime. If such services are designed to target the vulnerable sections of the society, then it is even fine (who cares?)
That is exactly the sentiments reflected by people holding and showing the 'safely legal' placard (hpuse, pollycat, shaun et all ).
When the average Joe comes here with a complaint, they will also happily say that usual words ...'should have' 'could have' read the small prints.... The owner or perpertuator of these sevices will also have the same defence... amused :0) Our value system is definitely going for a toss !0 -
I have no respect to those who keep emphasing to others in a public forum that these companies and their operations are completely legal in UK.
Can I please ask why?
Surely you can accept that these sites, whether you or I like them or not, are legal.
And if that's the case why do you have no respect for those that say so?
Of course, if you think they are not legal then please tell us why you think that.0 -
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