Not 'doing' Santa - part two

mumps

pipkin71 wrote: »

I disagree.

If it were not for coca-cola, lots of children who believe in the jolly fat man in a red suit would not have that image to believe in and I'm sure children had lovely christmases before his introduction.

I still want the magic and gifts for my children, who are too old to believe in santa. Do we stop now because they are too old to believe? No, we just do other things to make it magical.

Santa is not the be all and end all of having a magical christmas even if, for many families he is an integral part.

There are images of the jolly fat man in the red suit prior to the CocaCola adverts, although it did give him alot more exposure.

pipkin71

shellsuit wrote: »

She doesn't want Santa because he isn't real, yet empty Santa sacks which will be filled by morning because of some magic words and magic dust isn't real either - that's what I meant by contradictory.

However, she stated that her daughter knows magic fairy dust isn't real and that the presents will be put there by the parents so, in that respect, she hasn't lied.

Edited to add: the daughter knows magic isn't real. I assume that also means the dust.

pipkin71

mumps wrote: »

There are images of the jolly fat man in the red suit prior to the CocaCola adverts, although it did give him alot more exposure.

Thanks mumps.

I thought coca cola came up with the image we have of santa as he is today.

ALIBOBSY

mumps wrote: »

There are images of the jolly fat man in the red suit prior to the CocaCola adverts, although it did give him alot more exposure.

Yes father christmas, saint nicholas, santa etc was pretty well known, but not always in red-often in green or brown.

Ali x

shellsuit

pipkin71 wrote: »

It is very easy to prove santa - the man in the red suit, with the white beard, isn't real. Simply don't buy any christmas presents next year and see if any magically appear under the christmas tree in the morning.

But the man in the red suit with the white beard IS real.

I saw him in the Grotto with my own eyes. I've even got photographs of him.

And presents do magically appear under our tree for me, because I don't put them there.

mumps

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

Yes father christmas, saint nicholas, santa etc was pretty well known, but not always in red-often in green or brown.

Ali x

Not always red but definitely was depicted in red, often quite a dark shade? Burgundy perhaps? It is surprising how many people really believe it started with the CocaCola ad in the 1930's. My mother was always very scathing about that as she was a child in the 20's and to her Father Christmas/Santa was usually referred to as Daddy Christmas (maybe an Irish thing) and she was quite clear that he was very much part of her childhood. He came down the chimney, filled the stocking hanging by the fire, drank his milk etc. Hey, maybe my family really started all the traditions, wouldn't that by fun, just call me Mrs Christmas.:T

pipkin71

shellsuit wrote: »

But the man in the red suit with the white beard IS real.

I saw him in the Grotto with my own eyes. I've even got photographs of him.

And presents do magically appear under our tree for me, because I don't put them there.

You can still prove that Santa is not real and that it is others who dress up as him.

Just because you do not put your presents under the tree yourself, doesn't mean a jolly white bearded man in a red suit put them there. I didn't put my own presents under the tree but I know who did.

Personally, I like the idea of Santa. I was sad when my girls stopped believing but then it was simply a matter of doing other things to keep the magic of christmas alive and we have managed that for years, without needing santa.

pipkin71

mumps wrote: »

Not always red but definitely was depicted in red, often quite a dark shade? Burgundy perhaps? It is surprising how many people really believe it started with the CocaCola ad in the 1930's. My mother was always very scathing about that as she was a child in the 20's and to her Father Christmas/Santa was usually referred to as Daddy Christmas (maybe an Irish thing) and she was quite clear that he was very much part of her childhood. He came down the chimney, filled the stocking hanging by the fire, drank his milk etc. Hey, maybe my family really started all the traditions, wouldn't that by fun, just call me Mrs Christmas.:T

I knew that versions of santa were around before coca-cola but was under the impression that the image of santa that we have today was created by coca-cola.

A check with google though suggests this poem shaped many of the images we have of santa:

A Visit from St. Nicholas

'Twas the night before Christmas, when all thro' the house
Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse;
The stockings were hung by the chimney with care,
In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there;
The children were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of sugar plums danc'd in their heads,
And Mama in her 'kerchief, and I in my cap,
Had just settled our brains for a long winter's nap —
When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
Away to the window I flew like a flash,
Tore open the shutters, and threw up the sash.
The moon on the breast of the new fallen snow,
Gave the luster of mid-day to objects below;
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a miniature sleigh, and eight tiny reindeer,
With a little old driver, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.
More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and call'd them by name:
"Now! Dasher, now! Dancer, now! Prancer and Vixen,
"On! Comet, on! Cupid, on! Donder and Blitzen;
"To the top of the porch! To the top of the wall!
"Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!"
As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly,
When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky;
So up to the house-top the coursers they flew,
With the sleigh full of toys — and St. Nicholas too:
And then in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
The prancing and pawing of each little hoof.
As I drew in my head, and was turning around,
Down the chimney St. Nicholas came with a bound:
He was dress'd all in fur, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnish'd with ashes and soot;
A bundle of toys was flung on his back,
And he look'd like a peddler just opening his pack:
His eyes — how they twinkled! His dimples: how merry,
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry;
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow;
The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath.
He had a broad face, and a little round belly
That shook when he laugh'd, like a bowl full of jelly:
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
And I laugh'd when I saw him in spite of myself;
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread.
He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And fill'd all the stockings; then turn'd with a jerk,
And laying his finger aside of his nose
And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose.
He sprung to his sleigh, to his team gave a whistle,
And away they all flew, like the down of a thistle:
But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight —
Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

—Clement Clarke Moore

Errata

Many Victorian Christmas cards depicted Santa Claus dressed in red with a flowing white beard. A very long time before the Coke artwork of him in their Christmas advertising in the 1920's and 30's.

Person_one

pipkin71 wrote: »

If it were not for coca-cola, lots of children who believe in the jolly fat man in a red suit would not have that image to believe in and I'm sure children had lovely christmases before his introduction.

Coca Cola might have fine tuned his image, but the Father Christmas of my childhood was the one from 'The Night Before Christmas' (who had a belly like a bowlful of jelly) and who gave the children their magical presents in The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe.