An independant Scotland will have to reapply to EU

chucknorris

I wonder what the betting would be on Scotland gaining independence, personally I think it is a fairly remote possibility but that isn't based on anything other than my gut feeling, and I don't have a feel for what the Scots actually think about this.

Enterprise_1701C

If Scotland gains independance then they would be booted out of the EU, and if they were to reapply they would HAVE to take the Euro as their currency.

Their main reason for wanting independance is monetary - they seem to think they will get all the North Sea Oil revenue. They might have forgotten that the money from England will dry up (I hope!!)

Personally I think that Alex Salmond campaigned on the basis of independance hoping that he would never have to go through with it.

Either way their independance would be great for England and a disaster for Scotland.

What I can't work out is why don't the rest of us get a vote?

grizzly1911

BertieUK wrote: »

Scotland could be remembering the success that their Irish Celtic cousins made by joining the EU then known as the EEC in 1973.

It had an impact on their development as a nation that not even the mostoptimistic observer of the time could have predicted.

Back then Ireland was regarded by most of the global community as an almost insignificant island, still struggling to find its place in the world more than five decades after gaining independencefrom the UK.

In those years when I worked as a coachdriver the roads were in a very poor state over most of the Republic, a few years after joining the EEC the road restructuring took place throughout the country at an alarming rate. The EEC was picking up 65% of the cost.

So maybe Scotland are remembering their Celtic cousins and what a lifesaver, in those days it was for their country.

I was up in the Western Isles earlier this year and it is clear a number of roads have been enhanced by EU money. Some good some bad.

Particularly some of the single track ones leading to isolated communities, where after about 10 miles you would suddenly come across virgin twin track, befitting a grand prix circuit, only to last about 2 miles and revert to 10 miles more single track. Money well spent;)

BertieUK

chucknorris wrote: »

I wonder what the betting would be on Scotland gaining independence, personally I think it is a fairly remote possibility but that isn't based on anything other than my gut feeling, and I don't have a feel for what the Scots actually think about this.

I am married to a Scot and we lived in Scotland until 1990 and we cannot see the country wanting to gain independence at all, not in any majority it would not be economically viable for them to do so unless they have a Magic Money Tree somewhere growing.

kabayiri

Why would they want to reapply?

Can't they just trade their oil and whiskey with the EU, and operate outside?

Think of the regulations they could dump overnight.

BertieUK

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

If Scotland gains independance then they would be booted out of the EU, and if they were to reapply they would HAVE to take the Euro as their currency.

Their main reason for wanting independance is monetary - they seem to think they will get all the North Sea Oil revenue. They might have forgotten that the money from England will dry up (I hope!!)

Personally I think that Alex Salmond campaigned on the basis of independance hoping that he would never have to go through with it.

Either way their independance would be great for England and a disaster for Scotland.

What I can't work out is why don't the rest of us get a vote?

I can remember driving a coach in Edinburgh with a local Edinburgh Guide when we stopped outside of the new Scottish Parliament Building to take pictures,

the guide was telling his group of 45 American Tourists that the original estimate on its construction was to have been between £10m and £40 but the final figure came in at may times that figure at £414m,

he said it with a huge smile on his face, one American asked why he was laughing at such a cost and he said joyfully...

.........'ENGLAND payed for the bill'...and carried on laughing.

I never forgot that statement, it just filled me as an Englisman with disgust.

zagubov

BertieUK wrote: »

I can remember driving a coach in Edinburgh with a local Edinburgh Guide when we stopped outside of the new Scottish Parliament Building to take pictures,

the guide was telling his group of 45 American Tourists that the original estimate on its construction was to have been between £10m and £40 but the final figure came in at may times that figure at £414m,

he said it with a huge smile on his face, one American asked why he was laughing at such a cost and he said joyfully...

.........'ENGLAND payed for the bill'...and carried on laughing.

I never forgot that statement, it just filled me as an Englisman with disgust.

It was UK money that paid for it. And what a waste; the parliament was a white elephant. The SNP were pushing to use this existing building at a fraction of the cost.
The rumour was that Labour thought it looked too grand and would make the parliament look too important. So the unionist Labour party went for a vanity prestige project they couldn’t manage properly.
They could have spent the difference on a parliament forEngland to solve the west Lothian question. Or if England fancied the palace of Westminster, a new reasonably priced UK parliament in the north well away from overpriced London. Too far from the hustle and bustle? All the more reason for modernising the UK’s train system then.

BobQ

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Will they?
They certainly would not be United any more.

The UK is an abbreviation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

The Kingdom Great Britain occured as a result of the political Union between England and Scotland in the Acts of Union 1707.

The Kingdom of Ireland merged with the Kingdom of Great Britain after the Irish War of Independance (1919-1921)

So it begs the question, should the union and Great Britain cease to exist, how can England, Wales and Northern Ireland continue to be called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, when Great Britain is broken up?



I think you may have become confused as England being the UK which is understandable given they do not have their own anthem and rely on the UK's anthem

International convention is that when a state is dissolved into constituent parts one part becomes the successor state and accepts all of the obligations of the previous nation. So for example the USSR broke up but Russia assumed the international obligations of the USSR and remained on the UN Security Council. The choice of which is the successor state would normally be based on many factors but physical size, population and economic power would be the main considerations.

So the UK of England, Wales and NI would remain as the EU member and Scotland would not be part of the EU, NATO, UN etc unless they reapplied in which case they would be required to adopt the Euro. Unless of course Mr Salmond wished to become a new territory of the UK of E, W and NI, much like Greenland did as part of Denmark.

Graham_Devon

kabayiri wrote: »

Why would they want to reapply?

Can't they just trade their oil and whiskey with the EU, and operate outside?

Think of the regulations they could dump overnight.

This is true, but you would also be stripping the Scots of their EU Citizenships.

A lot goes with that! Including treaties etc.

Nicola Sturgeon has basically suggested that a new independant Scotland would negotiate with the EU on Scottish terms. There is also the question of NATO, which, reading between the lines, Scottish politics is damaged on, and again, althought he SNP believe they would automatically just rejoin, other Scots, outside of the SNP suggest it's not quite as easy for that and they are taking the Scottish people for granted.

But the second thing is this, which is very clear. When you lose the citizenship of a member country of the EU, you also lose citizenship of the EU, which is additional to but does not replace national citizenship.
So, this means in no uncertain terms that the moment Scotland leaves the UK, its people become former citizens of the UK and former citizens of the EU. Scotland would then have to negotiate entry into the EU – this might be quite a quick process, but it would not be automatic. And as a new member of the EU, the new nation of Scotland would have to accept membership of the Euro, because the UK opt outs would not longer apply.
This is not something, one suspects, that Mr Salmond bargained for, and he has denied this state of affairs and is preparing a reasoned and lengthy response which will be published sometime in the future. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say. My guess is that Mr Salmond will have to appeal to Brussels and the Union for some sort of Union legislation that would allow Mr Salmond what he wanted – to leave the UK and stay in the Union. The Union could of course legislate for this – but will they? Would the Spanish, and all the other nations which have secession issues want to make things easy for those who wish to secede? I doubt it!

ruggedtoast

Graham_Devon wrote: »

This is true, but you would also be stripping the Scots of their EU Citizenships.

A lot goes with that! Including treaties etc.

Nicola Sturgeon has basically suggested that a new independant Scotland would negotiate with the EU on Scottish terms. There is also the question of NATO, which, reading between the lines, Scottish politics is damaged on, and again, althought he SNP believe they would automatically just rejoin, other Scots, outside of the SNP suggest it's not quite as easy for that and they are taking the Scottish people for granted.

Yes, they want to remain part of NATO, an American led nuclear first strike organisation, and their first militarily significant act will be ejecting the American nuclear deterrent the UK leases, from their borders.