Not 'doing' Santa

skintchick

By the way, I am genuinely enjoying discussing this, it's good to be challenged on my views and make sure I have a robust viewpoint based on something solid.

It's interesting to hear everyone's thoughts and feelings. I never knew before quite how strongly some people feel about FC! It's got a certain evangelical zeal about it in some cases.

Is FC the new Jesus, I wonder?

Idiophreak

skintchick wrote: »

I'm not going to lie to my child

I find this "not lying" idea quite an entertaining notion, actually. I've been thinking, I'm not a parent (you may be shocked to hear ) but I've thought of fun true things I could say when I have kids of my own.

"I've put my thumb between my index and middle finger. It may look like I've got your nose, but I haven't really."

"I'm going to put a puppet on my hand and put on a silly voice. Remember, it may seem like a different character, but it's just me speaking in a silly voice."

"It's going to look a little bit like a dinosaur walking along the wall...But it's not, it's just a shadow of my hand, as emphasised by the bright light I'm going to shine on it."

"I'm going to shake this magic eight ball and it's going to tell the answer to a question...but you shouldn't take that as any kind of reasoned decision, it's random based on the movement of the fluid inside."

To say nothing of...

"I don't consider you particularly clever, no...I could fit those blocks in the holes with my eyes closed."

"I don't particularly love you too right now, you've been a little brat the whole morning."

"Yes, of course I'm angry that you wet the bed, I was having sex with your mother, now I'm mopping up your pee."

Person_one

quinechinoise wrote: »

I don't think that was cruel. Do you think it would be better for a little girl to believe that "santa" had forgotten her that year because her mother had no money for gifts?

That's entirely the sort of reason why I tell my kids: you get gifts that your parents can afford to give you - nothing to do with whether you're on "santa's good list" or whatever.

'Cruel' referred to me finding out so young and having the rug of that lovely make believe pulled from under me.

However, yes, I do think it was cruel of the mother to shatter one of her 5 year old's fantasies at a time when everything else in her life was falling apart too. There were better ways to handle it. We were only in reception, poor kid was devastated, and then so were the rest of us.

skintchick

Idiophreak wrote: »

I find this "not lying" idea quite an entertaining notion, actually. I've been thinking, I'm not a parent (you may be shocked to hear ) but I've thought of fun true things I could say when I have kids of my own.

"I've put my thumb between my index and middle finger. It may look like I've got your nose, but I haven't really."

"I'm going to put a puppet on my hand and put on a silly voice. Remember, it may seem like a different character, but it's just me speaking in a silly voice."

"It's going to look a little bit like a dinosaur walking along the wall...But it's not, it's just a shadow of my hand, as emphasised by the bright light I'm going to shine on it."

"I'm going to shake this magic eight ball and it's going to tell the answer to a question...but you shouldn't take that as any kind of reasoned decision, it's random based on the movement of the fluid inside."

To say nothing of...

"I don't consider you particularly clever, no...I could fit those blocks in the holes with my eyes closed."

"I don't particularly love you too right now, you've been a little brat the whole morning."

"Yes, of course I'm angry that you wet the bed, I was having sex with your mother, now I'm mopping up your pee."

:rotfl:

There is a difference between answering questions with the truth, and complusively telling the truth in any and all situations!

As well you know, you teaser!

stargazer59

skintchick wrote: »

Not really. In your original posts you set out to make it sound like this girl had been pretty much ostracised by her peers since she told them FC didn't exist.

Then you said you didn;t know if she was ostracised or not, she seems to have friends.

Now you say you don't know about her situation currently.

She might well have experienced a small bump in the friendship road at the time of the original revelation, but you extrapolated that out to say that she no longer had any friends.

Clearly, from your later posts, that is not true.

It makes a big difference to this discussion whether you are referring to a minor issue at the time, or continued ostracising since then, and you know it.

Now that we've finally got to what I hope is the truth of it, that at the time there was a minor amount of friendship fallout that is now resolved, then all I can say is 'so what?'.

Kids fall out all the time over all sorts of things. It happens. I'm not going to lie to my child about FC in order to attempt to avoid such fallouts.

What I am going to do is parent her in such a way that I give her the skills and emotional stability to deal with fallouts like that, and to overcome them without too much upset.

I obviously did not make it as clear as i thought:rotfl:

Firstly , i said because she said it was all lies the children did not want to play with her. I also said she had trouble making and keeping friends since.

Secondly, i said that maybe ostracised was the wrong word to use, not that it did not happen.

Thirdly i do not know her situation currently but will ask my daughter and report back.

Fourthly you mention the truth of the matter, and me saying something that is not true, you seem to be saying i am not telling the truth?

I know children fall out over many things, and make friends again just as quickly, but the whole point was that the little girl in question ended up being the one who was hurt, i do not understand why you cannot see this? If my child was upset because no one wanted to play with her i would not say "so what" no matter what the cause, (although she is now at the age of 36 it would be funny!)

Anyway, i think we have gone round in circles long enough, i wish i had not posted to begin with now:)

Welshwoofs

Idiophreak wrote: »

Are you sure? Not being funny, but that reasoning is rather too advanced for a 2 or 3 year old...they just don't have an appreciation of the world in that way.

I'm 100% sure that I never articulated that I believed in Santa and my parents said some years later than I'd only ever stated that Santa was 'make believe'. I can't ever remember believing in Santa and my parents never said anything about presents originating from anywhere other than themselves and other relatives.

At that age, if you believe something relies, pretty much 100%, on whether you're told to believe it.

I wasn't told to believe in Santa and I wasn't told not to believe in Santa.

Someone was bound to have told you to believe, whether that be your family, friends or just the jolly man on the coke adverts - the fact you never believed it suggests someone must have told you not to.

We didn't have a TV and I was born in the 60s in a very rural area so there wasn't any rampant advertising to 'learn' about Santa from.

skintchick

stargazer59 wrote: »

I know children fall out over many things, and make friends again just as quickly, but the whole point was that the little girl in question ended up being the one who was hurt, i do not understand why you cannot see this? If my child was upset because no one wanted to play with her i would not say "so what" no matter what the cause, (although she is now at the age of 36 it would be funny!)

I was saying so what to you, I wouldn;t say it to my child.

I can see your point (well, the one you are making now, the original one you made was different and more melodramatic no matter how much you choose to deny that now), but I can also see it was a minor incident in one of many minor incidents that happen to children in friendships at school, and as such I don;t see it as any kind of cautionary tale.

That's the point I am trying to make. That your story makes no difference to my opinion on how I deal with FC and my child, because I don;t see your story as being such a big deal.

stargazer59

skintchick wrote: »

I was saying so what to you, I wouldn;t say it to my child.

I can see your point (well, the one you are making now, the original one you made was different and more melodramatic no matter how much you choose to deny that now), but I can also see it was a minor incident in one of many minor incidents that happen to children in friendships at school, and as such I don;t see it as any kind of cautionary tale.

That's the point I am trying to make. That your story makes no difference to my opinion on how I deal with FC and my child, because I don;t see your story as being such a big deal.

I do not feel my "story" has changed, but if you feel thats fine, we can agree to differ!

I do not expect anything i say to make a difference to how you parent your child, that is personal to you.

It may not seem like a big deal to you but it was to the child, the parents and other children involved that was the point i was making.

Any way, Merry Christmas

miss_independent

stargazer59 wrote: »

I do not feel my "story" has changed, but if you feel thats fine, we can agree to differ!

I do not expect anything i say to make a difference to how you parent your child, that is personal to you.

It may not seem like a big deal to you but it was to the child, the parents and other children involved that was the point i was making.

Any way, Merry Christmas

I'm glad you did post it, because (as a teacher) I've also seen similar happen. I've heard of children in tears because "x's mummy and daddy said there is no santa", I've seen my friends and some of my family members fuming because "there has always got to be one who has to ruin it for everyone else." and I can still remember the kid who first told me there was no Santa! But I think if you intentionally choose to bring your child up in an unconventional way, you have to be prepared that not everyone will agree with you or like you and it could well be your child that suffers as the end result.

Person_one

After 10 pages, I can't see a single way in which a belief in Father Christmas in early childhood can cause problems for or harm to a child, and quite a few ways in which a parent insisting on telling them the truth could cause them issues.

If it was possible to bring up children in a Santa-less world, I could understand the desire not to 'lie' to them a bit more, but we don't, and you have to live in the world as it is sometimes.