Why are savings rates on the floor?

doughnutmachine

bowlhead99 wrote: »

You misunderstand. The EU is not good because of the fact the it costs us money to be in it. However it is arguably good despite the fact it costs us money to be in it.

Yeah that's much better - let's close the door to migrants and close the door to the 500m friends on our doorstep, and go and find our own way. Someone will help us out if it all goes wrong, right? Ah no, because we severed economic ties with them. But that's a problem for another generation.

perhaps you would be good enough to give some of the arguments why the EU is good for the UK?

i didn't know a country had to be a member of the EU to get help from the likes of the IMF and NATO?

doughnutmachine

bowlhead99 wrote: »

Sure.
The Polish builder did some productive work within the UK, improving the value, safety and longevity of somebody's home or office. Out of his gross income he paid some tax, bought a year's worth of shopping and a car and someone to do his bookkeeping and sent a little home. The person receiving the cash for the car and the shopping paid employees, bought materials, and things for his own home. The employees and receivers of payments for the materials also paid some tax and spent the rest. The government spent the tax revenue improving living standards and infrastructure and paying public sector salaries to provide incomes, and so it continues on and on. The multiplier effect, applied to productive work.

but there are british builders looking for jobs.... does it really make sense for the UK taxpayer to pay unemployment benefit to people looking for work, while letting in people that undercut the native workforce?

gadgetmind

doughnutmachine wrote: »

perhaps you would be good enough to give some of the arguments why the EU is good for the UK?

The main advantage for me is that we can recruit skilled employees from the rest of the EU and not worry about work permits.

Yes, we ought to be able to recruit enough from within the UK, but that's something for our universities need to address.

doughnutmachine

SavingFish wrote: »

Also, with regards taxes and who is a "net contributor"...



I'm not going to criticize anyone, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but don't be brainwashed by politicians and the media. Do your own research.

ahhh, so immigrants pay 37% more in tax than they get in welfare? so how about the NHS? by the time you include that immigrants take more out than they pay in?

like it or not, people coming to the UK working on minimum wage (or anywhere near) are not likely to pay more to the taxpayer than they take out. tbh if you needed say £5m to move to the country i wouldn't mind immigrants.

doughnutmachine

gadgetmind wrote: »

The main advantage for me is that we can recruit skilled employees from the rest of the EU and not worry about work permits.

Yes, we ought to be able to recruit enough from within the UK, but that's something for our universities need to address.

finally a decent argument for the EU

in the uk we are stong in some industries like pharmauticals, tbh i don't mind some PhD etc coming to the UK to work in drug research etc. but most of the east europeans coming to the UK are at the other side of the skill spectrum...

doughnutmachine

talexuser wrote: »

Wasn't he the chap who had the great idea of following the exchange rate mechanism? That turned out well! Also I seem to remember the "Lawson Boom" with 8% inflation and 15% interest rates and nearly doubling unemployment! Obviously a man to be taken seriously.

you suggest that it's easy to become chancellor? i don't think he got his peerage by donating 2m to the tory party....

SavingFish

doughnutmachine wrote: »

but there are british builders looking for jobs.... does it really make sense for the UK taxpayer to pay unemployment benefit to people looking for work, while letting in people that undercut the native workforce?

Purely a personal experience, but I've employed the services of contractors of various nationalities over the years.

The British builders turned up when they felt like it, only worked for a couple of hours when they did, and made a complete pigs ears of the work they did complete. I spent months fighting with them and resolving problems afterwards.

The Polish builders turned up every day at 8am and worked a full day. The work was completed quickly and I haven't had any problems since.

Guess which of these two builders I've recommended to friends and family.

Recommendations are at least as important as prices. If certain builders aren't getting these recommendations, maybe they should start asking themselves why.

For me, undercutting has nothing to do with it (I'd rather pay more for quality work from someone I can trust tbh).

Oh, and the Polish builders never hinted at 'cash-in-hand', so they were probably paying more tax than the British builders.

(Again, this is just my personal experience, I'm not generalizing this to all British builders).

gadgetmind

doughnutmachine wrote: »

most of the east europeans coming to the UK are at the other side of the skill spectrum...

So are most UK nationals but at least the immigrants are prepared to get out of bed in the morning and put in a solid day's work.

doughnutmachine

SavingFish wrote: »

Purely a personal experience, but I've employed the services of contractors of various nationalities over the years.

fair points, i used to work in UK construction. my perception is that the better tradesmen work on larger construction jobs than domestic/ smaller jobs.

when you speak to the guys on the tools there is a lot of anger at east europeans coming over and undercutting rates. i'm not saying it's right, but i can certainly see their point of view.

it's easy to get morally superior about immigration. but when immigrants are threatening your job you might see things differently...

doughnutmachine

gadgetmind wrote: »

So are most UK nationals.

yeah your right. but it doesn't make much sense to import additional low skill labour when there isn't enough jobs to go round.

i just don't think all those east european big issue sellers etc add much to the UK...