Cameron wins German support on EU talks

Thrugelmir

BertieUK wrote: »

I could not agree MORE with many of your points, and if the Prime Minister had trimmed more off the wealthy, just a little bit, and not been as savage with others, then we could understand the state of the economy and understand his reasons.

Welfare spending in October 2012 was up 7.2% compared to the same month in 2011. So the claims of hardship under Tory austerity are misguided. In fact welfare spending over the past 3 years is up 15%.

Journalists such as Polly Toynbee conveniantly overlook such facts. As doesn't fit their agenda. Which does little to inform the British public of reality.

CLAPTON

One thing seems certain to me

that given the number of posters that say Tories are the worst thing that ever happened to Uk
and those that say Labour is the worst thing that ever happened to the UK
and those that say the coalition is the worst thing that ever happened to the UK
and they all agree that the electorate are all fools

and given the fact that we are one of the richest countries in the whole and the world's 6th largest manufacturer

then I reckon that we have a pretty sophisticated electorate that often votes intelligently

Thrugelmir

CLAPTON wrote: »

and given the fact that we are one of the richest countries in the whole and the world's 6th largest manufacturer

Running a negative balance of payments means progressively our wealth is flowing away.

With oil and gas production in decline. There's little chance of retaining 6th spot.

Wookster

CLAPTON wrote: »

and given the fact that we are one of the richest countries in the whole and the world's 6th largest manufacturer

then I reckon that we have a pretty sophisticated electorate that often votes intelligently

You know that attitude is just complacent and dangerous. This whole "we're ok" and "we're doing fine as we are" attitude is the sort of attitude that got us into this mess in the first place.

Its time to start looking at what other countries are doing, and compare ourselves to them!

It is very Labouresque to just assume we're all fine rather than to have a risk based approach to running the economy.

BertieUK

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Welfare spending in October 2012 was up 7.2% compared to the same month in 2011. So the claims of hardship under Tory austerity are misguided. In fact welfare spending over the past 3 years is up 15%.

Journalists such as Polly Toynbee conveniantly overlook such facts. As doesn't fit their agenda. Which does little to inform the British public of reality.

All I see is getting far less for my pension than ever, the bridge for me like millions of others is narrowing. All we hear is big bankers awarding themselves millions of pounds in a bonus.

In my lifetime I have found the Tory bed-side manners not very nice and come over in an arrogant way, maybe we were being told the facts but the wording should be more at a level that we understand.

I have to go to a dictionary many times to try and desipher the meanings of some of their words. Age concern more like it think.

Regards
Bob

GeorgeHowell

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

The only thing that worries me, is that the electorate will kick the Torries out. That would be the singularly worst thing to happen to this country in living memory.

Im not saying they have everything right - far from it, I think they havent gone deep enough with many things, and have made mistakes on others. They havent got ther esults they should have (though i highly susspect thats due to the watered down poilicies of a co-alition). However, having started down the road we have, kickig them out and starting again with someone else owould be catastrophic.

WE, as a county and individuals, need to understand we cant have what we cant afford - even if that is well paid pensions, good health or education services. What we want costs more than we have - and these things arnt "rights" as many would tout.

What is happening in Europe is right and propper - and that needs continuing in this country as well.

Personally Im being hit quite hard. Ive had 3 years of pay freezes, then no access to benefits (despite being on a low income) due to a small pension and decent lump sum on finishing my last job. My wife gets no help looking for work as shes not entitled to benefits etc etc etc, however Im no different from most in this country --- except those that cant see why "they" should take a hit. Thats more often than not the same people who think its accptable to live off the state, those in the Unions thinking they must stand up for things that arnt realistic, and the pink and fluffy human rights people who dont even understand the meanig of a right.

Cameron should be applauded for standing up to Europe. He should do the same to the public sector and Unions, as well as those big buisinesses ducking their tax commitments, and anyone else who thinks teh current situation doesnt apply to them.

If the Tories get booted out it will indeed be of their own doing. If they stood on a platform from now on of :- standing up for Britain; making the ordinary citizen believe they are on his/her side; restricting immigration because we just can't take any more people; putting the interests of victims first, not criminals; controlling the cartels such as utilities who screw us; ending the human rights farce; and returning welfare to the safety net that it was originally intended to be, then that would surely get them in comfortably. And if it did not then we might as well turn the lights out and kiss goodbye to the UK.

But they would have to start it all now for people to believe that they really mean it. That would mean calling the LibDems bluff, and assuming that the latter don't want to commit electoral suicide right now.

Wookster

BertieUK wrote: »

All I see is getting far less for my pension than ever, the bridge for me like millions of others is narrowing. All we hear is big bankers awarding themselves millions of pounds in a bonus.

I think you're quite mistaken about the face of banking. Banking has changed and the days of enormous bonuses as normal are now over. Several tens of thousands of jobs have gone, permanently in financial services. Regarding inflation, if Labour hadn't overspent during its time in office, undoubtedly, inflation would have been lower. It is a basic economic fact that overspending (i.e. more money chasing the same amount of goods) is inflationary.

BertieUK wrote: »

In my lifetime I have found the Tory bed-side manners not very nice and come over in an arrogant way, maybe we were being told the facts but the wording should be more at a level that we understand.

This is because the Tories tell it like it is. Every time Labour are in power, they spend far more than the coffers will allow and when the Tories come in, they have to retrench. Maybe you think its nasty that people can't get what they can't afford but that's just life in the real world, rather than the Labour approach of bribing the electorate with benefits, tax credits and HPI, neither of which we can afford any longer.

GeorgeHowell

BertieUK wrote: »

All I see is getting far less for my pension than ever, the bridge for me like millions of others is narrowing. All we hear is big bankers awarding themselves millions of pounds in a bonus.

In my lifetime I have found the Tory bed-side manners not very nice and come over in an arrogant way, maybe we were being told the facts but the wording should be more at a level that we understand.

I have to go to a dictionary many times to try and desipher the meanings of some of their words. Age concern more like it think.

Regards
Bob

You're living in a fools' paradise. The reason you thought you had it good under Labour was because it was all done on the never never. Now it's payback time you don't like it. Do you want Labour back in to do it all over again, so that eventually we are in hock to the IMF or whoever and lose our independence altogether and have draconian cuts like you've never seen before ?

Maybe the Tories do come over as arrogant. But isn't that what we need in order to stand up for Britain and against the vested interests that will screw us if they can ? I'd rather have arrogant than a smarmy, mealy-mouthed roll-over merchant like Blair, who would for example give up half of Britain's EU rebate for nothing in return, because he hadn't got the bottle to stand up for himself, or for us.

Thrugelmir

BertieUK wrote: »

All I see is getting far less for my pension than ever,

That's a different matter. Doesn't contribute to the macro debate of the unaffordable welfare state we have now in the UK.

So what would you cut in the welfare budget to fund an increase in your pension?

GeorgeHowell

Thrugelmir wrote: »

When the next election arrives. Odds on Labour will say nothing about reversing Tory "cuts". In fact they may have the difficult time of explaining what they would do to rebalance the books. As further cuts and taxation increases are just as likely.

Labour will just come out with the usual flannel about stimulating growth so that it will all come good without any need for unpleasantness. That's what they said before, but it wasn't enough so they borrowed it. But because it's what many of the sweaty masses want to hear it may be enough to do the trick again.