Cameron wins German support on EU talks

GeorgeHowell

BertieUK wrote: »

Now your at it again, it wasna me. If I remember your lot were in for something like 18 years of governing our country, used the wrong word there, and over that time you should have really put the country back on its feet and in a position wherby you should have gained the trust of the people never to lose another election.

Then you created an unemplyment figure that we had never seen before and fell from grace like a ton of bricks.

People like me 'the working class' do not resent any attempt to bring things back to reality, all we ask for is to keep to your promises and stop telling porky pies.

Now Cameron is thinking which other party he can seek to help him form the next Coalition Government. What a sad thought.

Doesn't your admission that in 18 years the Tories should have put the country back on its feet rather demonstrate that in 1979 Labour left it in a shambles ? As I recall, unemployment was already high during the 18 years, not only at the end, so that's not the root cause -- that was due to changing a strong leader for a weak one.

If the Tories after several terms should have put themselves in a position not to lose another election, then why should that not also apply to New Labour ?

If we're going to trade porkies what about :- the "justfication" for invading Iraq, no more boom and bust, or reducing social inequality. All politicians tell lies and fail to deliver on promises.

I very much doubt that Cameron is looking for another coalition because failure to win outright next time will surely put someone else in the driver's seat.

BertieUK

George you suprise me because you come across an intelligent gentleman and you can only resort to nit-picking.

After 18 years you should have proven yourself.

GeorgeHowell

StevieJ wrote: »

Maybe we should look at the facts

Here is the UK balance of payments between 1964 - 1974 that would be Tory - Labour - Tory

Balance of payments 1964 (Tories leave power) -376 1970 (Labour leave power) +579 1974 (Tories leave power) -3500 :eek:

To put that into context the balance of payments was considered crucial then as the £ was fixed to the dollar and so the B of P was usually under pressure. The Tories managed to hold the fixed rate, whether wise or not, Wilson could not and eventually devalued, and Heath was a disaster in his last two years anyway when he completely screwed up fighting the union barons who were trying to get Labour back in -- which they did.

But this is all ancient history and the B of P is no longer so key, compared with indicators like growth, inflation, and the national deficit/debt. New Labour had a decent record on the first two at the expense of the last, and now we are paying the price.

GeorgeHowell

BertieUK wrote: »

George you suprise me because you come across an intelligent gentleman and you can only resort to nit-picking.

After 18 years you should have proven yourself.

Please read it again, and think about the question -- if the premise is that after 18 years the Tories should have proved themselves so as not to lose in 1979, then why after 13 years does this not also apply to New Labour losing in 2010 ? Was that extra 5 years was the make or break, and if so why ? Or are you missing the point ?

BertieUK

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

Please read it again, and think about the question -- if the premise is that after 18 years the Tories should have proved themselves so as not to lose in 1979, then why after 13 years does this not also apply to New Labour losing in 2010 ? Was that extra 5 years was the make or break, and if so why ? Or are you missing the point ?

George I am not trying to live in the past, but merely state that if the Conservatives were as clever as you seem to think they are, the past would be history and you would be showing the people like me, that you can rebuild the country and gain trust in these difficult times.

I maybe missing many points here but you certainly have a play with words I must say, are you one of Camerons Spin Doctors.

I do not wish to offend you in any way.

Eellogofusciouhipoppokunu

A lot of people, especially Thrugelmir, seem to be giving Devon lessons in economics these days. Shame he doesn't give his keyboard a rest long enough to read and learn.

By the way Graham, what on earth is an 'allie'?

GeorgeHowell

BertieUK wrote: »

George I am not trying to live in the past, but merely state that if the Conservatives were as clever as you seem to think they are, the past would be history and you would be showing the people like me, that you can rebuild the country and gain trust in these difficult times.

I maybe missing many points here but you certainly have a play with words I must say, are you one of Camerons Spin Doctors.

I do not wish to offend you in any way.

They are not that clever and have screwed up a number of times, eg the handling of the Profumo affair which probably saw them off in 1964, screwing up taking on the union barons which saw them off in 1974, replacing Thatcher with Major and then clinging onto EMU which probably saw them off in 1997. All I am saying is that I can level the same accusation at Labour -- given three terms between 1997 and 2010 did they not have the same opportunity to prove that they are in fact fit to govern ? But instead they got booted out in 2010.

Voting in this country is choosing the least worst option.

paulmapp8306

BertieUK wrote: »

The electorate will let their fingers do the walking, which way is anyones guess and that disturbs me.

regards
bob

The only thing that worries me, is that the electorate will kick the Torries out. That would be the singularly worst thing to happen to this country in living memory.

Im not saying they have everything right - far from it, I think they havent gone deep enough with many things, and have made mistakes on others. They havent got ther esults they should have (though i highly susspect thats due to the watered down poilicies of a co-alition). However, having started down the road we have, kickig them out and starting again with someone else owould be catastrophic.

WE, as a county and individuals, need to understand we cant have what we cant afford - even if that is well paid pensions, good health or education services. What we want costs more than we have - and these things arnt "rights" as many would tout.

What is happening in Europe is right and propper - and that needs continuing in this country as well.

Personally Im being hit quite hard. Ive had 3 years of pay freezes, then no access to benefits (despite being on a low income) due to a small pension and decent lump sum on finishing my last job. My wife gets no help looking for work as shes not entitled to benefits etc etc etc, however Im no different from most in this country --- except those that cant see why "they" should take a hit. Thats more often than not the same people who think its accptable to live off the state, those in the Unions thinking they must stand up for things that arnt realistic, and the pink and fluffy human rights people who dont even understand the meanig of a right.

Cameron should be applauded for standing up to Europe. He should do the same to the public sector and Unions, as well as those big buisinesses ducking their tax commitments, and anyone else who thinks teh current situation doesnt apply to them.

Thrugelmir

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

The only thing that worries me, is that the electorate will kick the Tories out.

When the next election arrives. Odds on Labour will say nothing about reversing Tory "cuts". In fact they may have the difficult time of explaining what they would do to rebalance the books. As further cuts and taxation increases are just as likely.

BertieUK

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

The only thing that worries me, is that the electorate will kick the Torries out. That would be the singularly worst thing to happen to this country in living memory.

Im not saying they have everything right - far from it, I think they havent gone deep enough with many things, and have made mistakes on others. They havent got ther esults they should have (though i highly susspect thats due to the watered down poilicies of a co-alition). However, having started down the road we have, kickig them out and starting again with someone else owould be catastrophic.

WE, as a county and individuals, need to understand we cant have what we cant afford - even if that is well paid pensions, good health or education services. What we want costs more than we have - and these things arnt "rights" as many would tout.

What is happening in Europe is right and propper - and that needs continuing in this country as well.

Personally Im being hit quite hard. Ive had 3 years of pay freezes, then no access to benefits (despite being on a low income) due to a small pension and decent lump sum on finishing my last job. My wife gets no help looking for work as shes not entitled to benefits etc etc etc, however Im no different from most in this country --- except those that cant see why "they" should take a hit. Thats more often than not the same people who think its accptable to live off the state, those in the Unions thinking they must stand up for things that arnt realistic, and the pink and fluffy human rights people who dont even understand the meanig of a right.

Cameron should be applauded for standing up to Europe. He should do the same to the public sector and Unions, as well as those big buisinesses ducking their tax commitments, and anyone else who thinks teh current situation doesnt apply to them.

I could not agree MORE with many of your points, and if the Prime Minister had trimmed more off the wealthy, just a little bit, and not been as savage with others, then we could understand the state of the economy and understand his reasons. For me it was the arrogant way that it has been handled by the Government and no compromise or discussions.

The medicine is rather bitter to take I must admit but sometimes, as my mother used to say, it will be better for you in the end. But our electorate may not see it that way and go down an uncharted route.

Perhaps if things had been taken at a steadier pace, with a little more thought put into the final outcome, people would be more forgiving and inclined to compromise.

regards
Bob