Cameron wins German support on EU talks

Conrad

michaels wrote: »

No idea on the substance of the negotiation but I have no doubt that as usual we are bending over and dropping trousers exactly as instructed but the Tories definitely seem to be managing the news agenda better

How are we doing 'exactly' as instructed? We did the opposite.

It was the supine Douglas Alexander always taking it up the dark one, and then preaching to all that this was the way to remain at the heart of Europe. It amazes me people fall for utter cowardly dimwits like him.

Graham_Devon

BertieUK wrote: »

What has Labour got to do with it?

Quite a lot. Did you miss the labour nonsense before Cameron went to the meeting? There were concerns from WITHIN the labour party that if the labour party continued to do what they were doing, we could face serious issues surrounding the EU, and even removal.

That was from labour members themselves concerned over their own peers party political games. They were basically trying to force a cut in the EU budget (after agreeing to rises every single time when they were in power) and trying to force a referendum (again, something they never did in power even though it was wanted).

They were suggesting that Cameron would have to use his veto rather than get what he got through negotiation, as he had no spine etc.

Have you even heard a peep from labour about this since?

BertieUK

Graham there is so much wrangling going on within all three parties at the moment, that us mere mortals have to try and forge ahead with our lives, despite everything standing still except the cost of living. Industry has taken a back seat everywhere where it counts.

It would be nice if the Tories stopped blaming everyone else for their lack of leadership, they should be looking for mature leadership with experience, not schoolboys as they have now.

The electorate will let their fingers do the walking, which way is anyones guess and that disturbs me.

regards
bob

Graham_Devon

BertieUK wrote: »

Graham there is so much wrangling going on within all three parties at the moment, that us mere mortals have to try and forge ahead with our lives, despite everything standing still except the cost of living. Industry has taken a back seat everywhere where it counts.

It would be nice if the Tories stopped blaming everyone else for their lack of leadership, they should be looking for mature leadership with experience, not schoolboys as they have now.

The electorate will let their fingers do the walking, which way is anyones guess and that disturbs me.

regards
bob

The tories are not blaming anyone for any lack of leadership. When have they ever done this?

They are SHOWING leadership. Cameron has just shown mature leadership with experience. He's just done something nearly everyone against him said he wouldn't be able to do without hiding behind a veto.

How would envisage he / the party show leadership if this is not it?

Mrs_Bones

Would someone like to tell me what exactly Cameron and co have done? because from all reports I've read and seen on the news, it would appear nothings been agreed at all. They've just decided to all come back again and repeat the exercise in a few months time. No one seems to have budged from the opinions they went into this meeting with hence why there is nothing decided on.

When they next meet if they can come to a decision then Cameron may have to use his veto or he may not depending on what that decision is. There seems to be an awful lot of crowing about a victory over a meeting where there was no outcome.

GeorgeHowell

Strumminalong wrote: »

Personally I believe Camerons trump card for winning the next election is a referendum on Europe.

It remains to be seen if and when he decides to play it.

I don't think they will ever hold a straightforward referendum while they think that the result would be withdrawal. The political class, with few exceptions, can't face the thought of life outside the EU. So they will always find a way to fudge it. The best case scenario is a referendum on a mandate to renegotiate and repatriate certain powers. But when such renegotiations essentially failed, which they would, we would be back to square one, unless the referendum had a back-stop clause of withdrawal, which it would not. The only way of getting out of the EU is to have a parliamentary majority in favour of coming out.

GeorgeHowell

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The tories are not blaming anyone for any lack of leadership. When have they ever done this?

They are SHOWING leadership. Cameron has just shown mature leadership with experience. He's just done something nearly everyone against him said he wouldn't be able to do without hiding behind a veto.

How would envisage he / the party show leadership if this is not it?

We have to reserve judgment until January, or whenever, when they go back and horse-trade against the clock. If he comes back with a grubby little compromise, described as the "best achievable outcome for Britain", but which upon examination shows that we got very little and the EU hierarchy got most of what it wanted, then I don't think anyone will be very surprised. If he manages to keep spending static in real terms for seven years then he'll save a lot of face and quell the back bench rebellion for a while perhaps. If he wields the veto and leaves the whole thing in limbo, with Barroso and Rumpy Pumpy scratching their heads in dismay then he could have set the seeds to winning the next election.

BertieUK

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The tories are not blaming anyone for any lack of leadership. When have they ever done this?

They are SHOWING leadership. Cameron has just shown mature leadership with experience. He's just done something nearly everyone against him said he wouldn't be able to do without hiding behind a veto.

How would envisage he / the party show leadership if this is not it?

Graham it is obvious that we are not really singing from the same Hymn Sheet because I cannot see any sense in what the present Government is up to at the moment either at home or in Europe as they have made more 'U turns' since being in power that swings in a fair ground..

They are not even listening to their own party half the time. They just try to bamboozle the people of this country with figures and making promises that are unreal and always reading from Spin Doctors notes all the time.

Lastly I must say that the country did not elect them with a majority, and Cameron sold the Liberals down the swanny and have virtually destroyed the Liberal Party.

We should have demanded another election, because how could two opposition parties fairly lead a counrty.

regards
Bob

sheffield_lad

Ahhh, Bob what we needed was the rainbow coalition that would have looked after the English voter wouldn't it? lol I can here Alex Salmon now suggesting where the cuts (if any because the deficit is made up isn't it?), could come from (clue anywhere but Scotland).

As for U turns I think its a breath of fresh air that they listen to the voters and adjust policies if they are unpopular pity Gordon and balls up didn't listen to us.

Back on topic and this does wonders for Cameron's standing he has pulled off a great bit of maneuvering and has come out with European allies, leaving the Socialist nutter in France in the same camp as Greece & Spain.

Well done Cam

leveller2911

BertieUK wrote: »

Lastly I must say that the country did not elect them with a majority, and Cameron sold the Liberals down the swanny and have virtually destroyed the Liberal Party.

We should have demanded another election, because how could two opposition parties fairly lead a counrty.

regards
Bob

Bliar won the 2005 Election having gained the support of only 35% of the vote which was the lowest in British history so I wouldn't take much notice of "majorities" we don't have true Democracy ,just a bodge job and a sticking plaster.

Remember only 61% of the electorate bothered to vote so they were elected to Government with the backing of less than 1 in 5 people eligible to vote.

Has any British Government been voted in by a true majority? no thought not.