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Freesat or Freeview?
Comments
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Moneyineptitude wrote: »I know perfectly well you're only guessing and I have read the whole thread!
But you keep on "guessing" the same thing even though I've already told you that Sky don't "justify" the charge because they don't have to.
They just charge the fee because it makes a 100% profit and because no regulator has seen fit to prevent them from doing so.
I didn't say they justify it, I said IF they were to, not sure how much clearer I can say it, so I will not bother...thank you and I'm out.0 -
No, you have set the recordings, not Sky. The Sky TV guide is incidental. Sky+ users can also set manual recordings without any EPG involvement at all. If what you surmise is true then why are non-subscribers not allowed such manual recordings?omg...because you have used their TV guide to record, they have set the set time, they have set the end time, that is why,
I haven't mentioned any "other channels", just the Free to air ones.
But I illustrated quite conclusively how, even if pressed, Sky don't attempt to justify it!I didn't say they justify it, I said IF they were to,
I agree this conversation is going nowhere...0 -
Totally wrong - the channel being listed on the EPG is essential for even making a "manual recording" - you cannot record added "other channels".Moneyineptitude wrote: »No, you have set the recordings, not Sky. The Sky TV guide is incidental. Sky+ users can also set manual recordings without any EPG involvement at all. If what you surmise is true then why are non-subscribers not allowed such manual recordings?0 -
Although you may own the hardware you do not own the software on the box. When the box is supplied new the PVR functions are not active. Both the packaging and the owners handbook clearly state "to use the digital video recorder functionality a subscription is required". That functionality is activated when a valid subscription viewing card is inserted and when that subscription is cancelled the box is returned to the state it was originally supplied as - i.e. a receiver only. A subscription is your icence to use the PVR software. Nothing illegal in any of that. Although broadcasters pay for the EPG listings it is subscribers who pay for continued ongoing development of the software in the boxes unlike the manufacturers of many freesat boxes who offer only a limited period of software support for their products (although Humax are better than some others at continuing their support for 3 to 4 years) and owners must now buy new boxes to use the latest functions available.Moneyineptitude wrote: »But Sky can't and don't claim that it goes towards paying for "links etc"!
It's actually quite a liberty Sky takes in disabling the PVR functions for non-subscribers. After all, the former customer owns the decoder and so should be able to continue use of it to it's fullest extent.
As always, Sky's primary goal is profit.
Sky are primarily TV platform suppliers and NOT equipment suppliers.0 -
Okay, I'll accept that.davemurgatroyd wrote: »Totally wrong - the channel being listed on the EPG is essential for even making a "manual recording" - you cannot record added "other channels".
However, I stand by what I said about the whole "justification" for charging is profit and nothing else. No one pays to use a Freesat or Freeview PVR and they rely on an electronic programme guide too.
Come on, I've never said Sky are acting illegally.davemurgatroyd wrote: »A subscription is your icence to use the PVR software. Nothing illegal in any of that. Although broadcasters pay for the EPG listings it is subscribers who pay for continued ongoing development of the software in the boxes unlike the manufacturers of many freesat boxes who offer only a limited period of software support for their products
As for a "limited period of software support" on Freesat/Freeview , do you really think the £123 a year which Sky charge non-subscribers gives them access to significantly superior software?
I don't.0 -
Yet again totally incorrect not only does administration of every subscriber cost money they also have to pay the owners of the software they use for every subscriber using that software. For the Sky+ and Thomson HD boxes it is payments to OpenTV (for the operating system in the box) and the new owners of NDS (Sky no longer even part own NDS) and in the case of the newer HD boxes to NDS (now owned by Cisco). Also the "remote record" facility costs money both in providing server space and transmission of the requests to subscribers boxes.Moneyineptitude wrote: »The £10 fee is pure profit for Sky.
Series links are completely automated and cost Sky next to nothing to implement for the millions of Sky+ customers.
Why do you think that virtually every stand alone subscription channel not in a Sky package charge aminimum of £10 per month - a significant part of which is to cover these charges that are outside the cost of merely providing the broadcast material. You seem to have little idea of the actual costs involved in broadcasting pay TV etc.0 -
sniggins,
Sorry, but you seem to have got yourself twisted up in knots. You ARE wrong. I, macman and Moneyineptitude are trying to correct you. Let's start again.
Post 27
'the Sky freesat service does not allow recording, you have to pay £10 a month for them to kindly allow you to record a free to air channel on the PVR you own'
Correct.
Post 29 - here's the problem
'What you are paying for is the work that goes into the TV guide, for them to update the guide so the recordings can be started and stopped at the correct times.'
WRONG.
Where did you get this information from if you're so determined that it's right? As you requested in post 48 - please post a source to say you're RIGHT.
So, start with a Sky+ or SkyHD+ box, no card. You can use the TV guide and watch the Free to View channels, BBC etc. These are UNencrypted. Recording not allowed.
Add a FreesatfromSky card. This is what your card becomes when you stop subscribing, or can be bought seperately for £25. This gives you the chip inside the card, that decrypts the ENcrypted 'Free to Air' channels. Recording STILL not allowed.
You can add a £10 per month payment to 'freesatfromsky' for the privilege of being allowed to record. The recordings don't go through the chip, they are stored on the hard drive encrypted. Only when you play them back, do they get decrypted. The £10 is a fee to allow you to record, AND to view what you've recorded. Nothing to do with them setting up series link etc. Can't you use series link just for reminders anyway? The recording capability is always there, Sky just flick a switch to make your card allow it. Certainly, I was in error if I said that the £10 is to unscramble channels.0 -
If you are going to correct other people please get it right = FTA is Free To Air which means unecrypted and does not require a viewing card AND FTV is Free To View which means subscription free but encrypted and requires a viewing card to watch.sniggins,
Sorry, but you seem to have got yourself twisted up in knots. You ARE wrong. I, macman and Moneyineptitude are trying to correct you. Let's start again.
Post 27
'the Sky freesat service does not allow recording, you have to pay £10 a month for them to kindly allow you to record a free to air channel on the PVR you own'
Correct.
Post 29 - here's the problem
'What you are paying for is the work that goes into the TV guide, for them to update the guide so the recordings can be started and stopped at the correct times.'
WRONG.
Where did you get this information from if you're so determined that it's right? As you requested in post 48 - please post a source to say you're RIGHT.
So, start with a Sky+ or SkyHD+ box, no card. You can use the TV guide and watch the Free to View channels, BBC etc. These are UNencrypted. Recording not allowed.
Add a FreesatfromSky card. This is what your card becomes when you stop subscribing, or can be bought seperately for £25. This gives you the chip inside the card, that decrypts the ENcrypted 'Free to Air' channels. Recording STILL not allowed.
You can add a £10 per month payment to 'freesatfromsky' for the privilege of being allowed to record. The recordings don't go through the chip, they are stored on the hard drive encrypted. Only when you play them back, do they get decrypted. The £10 is a fee to allow you to record, AND to view what you've recorded. Nothing to do with them setting up series link etc. Can't you use series link just for reminders anyway? The recording capability is always there, Sky just flick a switch to make your card allow it. Certainly, I was in error if I said that the £10 is to unscramble channels.0 -
surely that is to do with the TV and connections rather than the sourc,e as both Freesat and Freeview are digital from the same source?
Not a clue - the telly has built in freesat and freeview, I got a little obsessed with comparing them during wimbledon and there is a discernible difference, albeit a slight one.0 -
davemurgatroyd wrote: »You seem to have little idea of the actual costs involved in broadcasting pay TV etc.
Sorry mate, but I continue to believe the Sky+ subscription is pure profit for Sky.
Post as much Sky propaganda as you want to in response, it won't change my opinion.
The Sky+ is a machine fully capable of continuing to record after the owner ceases to be a Sky customer. Regardless of any "legality", Sky should not be crippling the functionality of these decoders.
As for not knowing the "actual costs" of broadcasting pay TV, I prefer to cast my attention to the massive profits posted by Sky in the last few years. If Sky absorbed the "cost" of software by providing it freely to ex-subscribers it would merely be a tiny drop in the ocean of profit Sky currently swims in.
Even though this remark was clearly not aimed at me, I think now you really are splitting hairs completely unnecessarily...davemurgatroyd wrote: »If you are going to correct other people please get it right = FTA is Free To Air which means unecrypted and does not require a viewing card AND FTV is Free To View which means subscription free but encrypted and requires a viewing card to watch.0
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