We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
EDF direct debit manipulation
Options
Comments
-
If you search the OVO website you will easily find the table. I have previously confirmed it on a more official website guided by Terry but it's not immediately to hand.
OVO edit: http://www.ovoenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Understanding_the_link_between_your_Direct_Debit_and_energy_consumption.pdf
The electricity profile is called "Class 1". Lots of info available on the Elexon website. Trying hard to remember who settles gas. Where has Terry gone?
OK, remembered now, Xoserve is the equivalent for gas.
Gosh that surprises me as well. There is a big tilt for each day into February for the sample period. Broadly 0.5% per day.
The point of which illustrates that that if the period measured had been April to September then the profile gives 27.6% and the averaging process would be way out.
Or if they choose to react to regular readings, they will get wild fluctuations. So is this what they have been doing? If they have although it may have arrived at a decent figure for me, it hasn't for many others.
As I said all along, until I had their calculation, I couldn't form a judgement.0 -
Back of an envelope job then.
And based on 6 months, mostly winter.
For comparison what is your self-calculated annualised DD figure?.
(Do you want to edit out your surname btw?)
This is a relative's account so i didn't have a great history to compare with. That made it even more important, for me, to understand why they had altered the DD. Hence the request for information, Different to your case which just looks plain wrong.
Now I have the Annual Statement data. (some months on), I would say, the figure should be £65 per month.
It is also worth noting that their 'back of envelope' calculation didn't take account of DD and Dual Fuel discounts, which helps explain their overestimation in my case. (as well as some seasonailty....but not as much as I thought). However,it is still over by around 10% in total.
Thanks for spotting the surname.0 -
How would this work as an IT process across the range of customers?
The explanation given to you is not the faltering explanation received for my current situation and will not work for a retrospective "make it fit" explanation, but then 9 months have elapsed. Maybe the billing system has progressed in that time.:rotfl:
It's not for me to make their flawed system work, though it's a fairly simple spreadsheet calculation to track actual consumption against the seasonal profile.
I've long advocated rolling 12 month calculations, for example as I *think* Scottish Power perform. A calculation based on monthly cost for the previous 12 months actual (or estimated) consumption with the payment adjusted for any account balance over 12 months.0 -
The explanation given to you is not the faltering explanation received for my current situation and will not work for a retrospective "make it fit" explanation, but then 9 months have elapsed. Maybe the billing system has progressed in that time.:rotfl:
It's not for me to make their flawed system work, though it's a fairly simple spreadsheet calculation to track actual consumption against the seasonal profile.
I've long advocated rolling 12 month calculations, for example as I *think* Scottish Power perform. A calculation based on the previous 12 months actual (or estimated) consumption and the payment adjusted for any account balance over 12 months.
I have asked EDF if they use this averaging system for all customers and pointed out the seasonailty weakness as well as the omission of discounts. I have asked for the IT system calculation rather than one which has been fitted to the number required.
Thinking back,when customers did submit regular readings they got spurious DD calculations which could of arrived courtesy of some sort of short term averaging especially in winter months.
I agree that the 12 month rolling calculation does offer a good solution. Provided they have some sort of tolerance, say 5 % before a change is made.
Where they have less than a years consumption, they could use the consumption profile and have a wider parameter before triggerring a change. e.g 10% .
EDf's system,if there is one, allows too many changes which are unpredictable and until now only partially explained if at all. Scottish Power's system at least had the Annual Kwh estimate and the other variables.0 -
It is also worth noting that their 'back of envelope' calculation didn't take account of DD and Dual Fuel discounts, which helps explain their overestimation in my case.
That is an interesting point. However they did include VAT yet the VAT cannot be correctly calculated without first deducting the discount, so a completely "bogus" calculation.:(
Following your post I revisited a cost quoted in my Edf "take 1" explanation which I did not recognise. I now see it is the ex-discount, ex-VAT cost for the "previous 12 months" consumption at current tariff prices. Well not quite, their treatment cannot cope with a part year tariff change, but that is another matter.:rotfl:
Now struggling to get my head round the applicability of that accounting presentation, particularly as the billing to date has (accurately I believe) levied and collected VAT on the discounted cost billed.0 -
The absence of the DD discount alone gives a 6.3% error.
Then there is £8 per year dual fuel discount.
Not that I think they do this systematically with every calculation. I think they were just lucky (or unlucky) that the average pre discounted cost gave the answer they wanted.
The EO ruling asked them to provide details of the February calculation. They have provided something else which doesn't stack up and probably isn't representative of what really happened.
They dig deeper and deeper holes.;)0 -
As a side note, the way Edf credit the warm home discount (£130) is utterly confusing and I still can't follow it.
They credit £123.81 (which plus 5% is 130) along with DD payments. (Why? Surely the 130 should be taken off the final - inc VAT - bill )
Gas & elec (less DD &dual fuel discounts) = 380 exc VAT,
but they have only charged VAT on 253 of that (which approximately balances out the (130-123.81) under-credit)
To me this seems a totally bizarre way of doing the sums, I can get nearly the same end result by doing it what to me is the logcal way (vat on all 380, discount the 130 at the end) but am still 14p out!
Am i missing something?0 -
The EO ruling asked them to provide details of the February calculation. They have provided something else which doesn't stack up and probably isn't representative of what really happened.
Their workings are clearly post hoc.
One starts to wonder if they actually are able to access the original calculation!0 -
Just a quick update: I still haven't received a reply with the DD calculation after my bill debacle.
As promised, I am still chasing this up and have just emailed EDF again (someone in their liaison section) asking why it is taking so long. Ad once again pointing out that if my DD was changed based on their system predicting my usage for next year, that they must be on the system and ready to be sent to me.
But obviously I have pointed this out to them several times and it is falling on deaf ears.
Just know I won't give up, and am determined to see just how they came to calculate such a sudden jump in usage for my electricity consumption and arrive at such high numbers.0 -
I have now received EDF's response to the Energy Ombudsman's ruling that they should provide me their explanation of the February DD change.
' On the 6 February 2012, we reassessed Mr. X's dual fuel monthly payments and changed the, to £71.00. Mr.X's electricity use between 8 August 2011 and 3 Februrary 2012 was £187.19 including VAT, which is approximately £30 per month. His gas usage between 8 August 2011 and 3 February 2012 was £246.87 including VAT which is approximately £40 per month. The payments were set at £71.00 per month to cover the outstanding balance of £13.93 and Mr. x's future use.'
Executive Liaison
Energy Sourcing and Customer Supply.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::D
So that's my point....
They have no even mentioned the actual USEAGE..... if the prices changed then the figures obfuscate that.Information on how your direct debit is calculated
Your supplier should clearly explain this. Suppliers must take all reasonable steps to ensure that your direct debit payments are based on the best available information, for example, on how much energy you have used. If you are an existing customer, your payments will be based on energy use over the previous year with adjustments if there have been any price changes. If you are a new customer, the payments will be based on a number of factors including previous meter readings and the number of rooms and/or the number of people living in the property.
The whole calculation should be based on how much energy you have used not how much you paid... but this is then made unclear .... by saying with adjustments if there have been any price changes
This is doubly daft if you are a dual fuel customer....
If last year you used electric to heat and gas to cook only OR even used an immersion heater that you are now only using a boiler... it should be based on how much energy you used (if anything) not the COST of that energy....
If you happen to be a 'new customer' it's even more vague....
My last contract with BG was not DD but it seemed nothing could get them to actually come and take a meter reading or take mine.
They just danced around having massively over estimated use.... probably because the last person to live there was a pensioner who had a special deal (and probably wasn't short of cash .. and hence trying to economise).... I swapped out the 50W Halogens, economised on heating a lot etc.
Nothing I could say or do would get them to actually use MY meter reading OR to come and take their own.
In the end I simply sent them the cheque for WHAT I USED.... with a letter stating the meter reading and the fact they had not read the meters and had refused to do so.
If I was on DD how would I have stopped them actually taking what they predicted? (and it was almost double what we used on one reading) .. they simply were not interested in any reading that lowered what I paid!0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply

Categories
- All Categories
- 350.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.5K Spending & Discounts
- 243.9K Work, Benefits & Business
- 598.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.9K Life & Family
- 257.2K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards