EDF direct debit manipulation

backfoot

My last EDF bill ( October) contained an Annual Statement in the format described. The projected consumption was less for gas and electricity than the previous 12 months.

The predicted annual cost divided by 12 became the changed Monthly Direct Debit.

For me,there was consistency between their predictions and the DD calculations.

It doesn't seem to be working for others.:o It doesn't make sense that they don't align these two processes for everyone and use it as the 'calculation' explanation in all cases.

jalexa

backfoot wrote: »

The predicted annual cost divided by 12 became the changed Monthly Direct Debit.

For me,there was consistency between their predictions and the DD calculations.

That's interesting. Does the "consistency" extend to the "comparable period" chart on the previous page?

This is entirely circumstantial on my part but I cannot exclude the possibility of the data being "gamed", by which I mean selective use of the data to justify an increase. If true that could in part explain the sense of "randomness" which has been evident as well as the inability of customer service staff to explain a complex automated calculation.

Your experience could of course be down to "luck".:D

Later edit reflecting on "luck", I assume you had a close to zero current balance otherwise I would have expected to see an adjustment for balance. On my recent bill I had a fully billed balance of 1.8 x monthly payment but no obvious adjustment.

victor2

My last bill from EDF was in November, when I foolishly gave them readings.

Using the figures they had for my annual usage, which were pretty accurate as readings had been provided close to a year before, they forecasted my electricity usage going up from 4286 to 4642, and gas falling from 20862 to 20673 kWh. So an increase in electricity usage of 8.3% and reduction in gas of 0.9%. No explanation of that offered and I didn't chase it.
They then accurately calculated the cost of both on my current tariff as £1323.28. Ignoring my existing account credit balance, that divided by 12 gives £110.27 per month. Taking into account the current credit of £94.91, the monthly payment worked out at £102.36, but that does assume you're looking for zero balance next November, and my review is in May, when it just so happens that my account balance was pretty close to zero this year.
So, what did they propose adjusting my DD to? £123, which consisted of £62 for my estimated future gas usage, £53 for electricity and £8 for my "gas debt". That's where it totally falls apart. Those components do not tally to their own forecasted usage on my tariff (fixed until next April) and my account was in credit.
When I phoned them, the usual apologetic and friendly CSR stated that they were aware of non-existent debts being quoted and offered to put my DD back to the £100 I had always insisted was adequate. They did that, and even though I know that is now a bit low, I was not going to argue. I'll probably have a debit balance next May at review time, but it will be interesting to see what their system comes up with then.
I was told in November that their system would be fixed in the New Year. Didn't ask which year though.

WestonDave

Well their online system has been down all day and is now showing a message saying its undergoing routine maintenance and should be back at 18:30. Nice to see their predictions of system availability are as reliable as their direct debit predictions. Maybe they'd be better off employing Mystic Meg!

backfoot

jalexa wrote: »

That's interesting. Does the "consistency" extend to the "comparable period" chart on the previous page?

This is entirely circumstantial on my part but I cannot exclude the possibility of the data being "gamed", by which I mean selective use of the data to justify an increase. If true that could in part explain the sense of "randomness" which has been evident as well as the inability of customer service staff to explain a complex automated calculation.

Your experience could of course be down to "luck".:D

Later edit reflecting on "luck", I assume you had a close to zero current balance otherwise I would have expected to see an adjustment for balance. On my recent bill I had a fully billed balance of 1.8 x monthly payment but no obvious adjustment.

Good questions. Couldn't get back earlier because the online system has been down.

The charts do show a current trend down consistent with the direction of the EDF adjustments to the Annual Statement data. Giving thought to your question, it isn't possible to quantify precisely, because I haven't input enough regular readings. (for well known reasons). The chart on the graph would indicate an even lower reduction this period, but in a way, I am pleased that the annual adjustment has not been scaled down to the same extent. i.e. not given too much weight to it, as it may be short term temperature led.

The balance on the account was £46 credit and you are right a DD calculation should obviously take that into account. To that extent it is around £4 overstated. Quite a fundamental error.

So not perfect, but possibly better. Luck ?...... probably. Will input new readings soon and retest.

jalexa

snowcat53 wrote: »

10 working days now up on my complaint and no reply, so more ammunition there.

I decided to prod the system after the expiry of the 5 working days target.

Their answer to that was there was no trace of my complaint's email even though I had two separate automated acknowledgements, one of which is listed in MyAccount.

Shambolic and dysfunctional.

victor2

jalexa wrote: »

I decided to prod the system after the expiry of the 5 working days target.

Their answer to that was there was no trace of my complaint's email even though I had two separate automated acknowledgements, one of which is listed in MyAccount.

Shambolic and dysfunctional.

Nicely summed up there!
The "no trace" probably comes from the same system that calculates DD's. :rotfl:

snowcat53

|Good thinking Jalexa. I have done the same by email to the 'Customer Service Director’s Executive team ' at CSDirector@edfenergy.com

jalexa

backfoot wrote: »

you are right a DD calculation should obviously take that into account. To that extent it is around £4 overstated. Quite a fundamental error.

Further reflecting on the treatment of balance, this is a trivial calculation for a "rolling 12 month" calculation but quite difficult for a fixed payment scheme year interim calculation which is what I believe Edf are performing.

Victor and Brewerdave have posted about balance treatment inconsistencies.

I speculate the automated system does not take the account balance directly into account at an interim review but Customer Service advisers when asked to explain use it as a fiddle factor (e.g. BD's 60% of balance) when trying to make the numbers "fit".

schrodie

I've just had my annual review from EDF and it makes interesting analysis. Based on assumed gas and electricity usage for Dec 2012 to Dec 2013 (figures given on page 5 of the Review bill) my revised DD are now £108 per month.

When I looked at the figures in the table they provided and taking the outstanding balance into account I got the following figure.

EDF's figures
Total amount (for Dec 2012 -Dec 2013) (inc discounts and VAT)........ ..........................................................£1013.92
Outstanding Balance..................................£64.20

Grand Total.....£1078.12
Monthly amount £1078.12/12 = £89.84

Difference in EDF's figures ....£108 - £89.84 =£18.16.

When I rang EDF to query this discrepancy I was told that this is a known issue (for over a year) with their computer system in that EDF's computer system throws out a higher figure for the Review amount compared to the figures EDF have used in their Annual Statement.

When I asked the advisor if Ofgem were aware of this issue the advisor said no.


So had I not queried this with EDF then over the next year I would have paid £18.16. x 12 = £217.92 too much according to EDF's own figures!!!

I was told by the adviser that EDF are "looking at" rolling out a new billing system but she didn't know but didn't think that those customers who had had inflated Review amounts would receive revised DD amounts.


Are Ofgem aware of this issue with EDF's billing system?