EDF direct debit manipulation

backfoot

steve,

I think you are finding differences between us posters where none exist. The whole calculation of a DD requires an estimate of Kwh consumption,converting it to cost and adjusting by other variables,e.g DD discount.

I think you have misinterpreted my acceptance of SP's answer to me as being the be all and end all. SP did provide Kwh estimates and I was happy that they tied up with my own records. The difference,I think, was that you wanted to see their detailed calculation of how they had arrived at those KWh. Had I not been happy,then I would have asked.

If you feel such data should be produced at the time of any DD change, I would support you. As you will probably have realised EDF wouldn't even produce the most basic of calculations at all for me, so best of luck. I have liaised with the Energy Ombudsman, Ofgem and any one else who would listen but no clear and firm guidance has been produced. EDF's latest (forced) attempt, is I agree, clearly deficient and arithmetically incorrect.How do you propose any of this gets brought into practice ?

I can only take your BG experience at face value. That an obviously forceful person couldn't get them to accept a firm reading from you is bizarre. I am sure you took them to task for it and through their complaint process.

steve-L

backfoot wrote: »

steve,
.....

If you feel such data should be produced at the time of any DD change, I would support you. As you will probably have realised EDF wouldn't even produce the most basic of calculations at all for me, so best of luck. I have liaised with the Energy Ombudsman, Ofgem and any one else who would listen but no clear and firm guidance has been produced. EDF's latest (forced) attempt, is I agree, clearly deficient and arithmetically incorrect.How do you propose any of this gets brought into practice ?

In terms of OfGen then the complaint should be about the end to end process. Ofgen are pretty toothless and seem more than happy to leave the utilities companies lots of wriggle room... (areas they can shift the 'black arts' part of their calculations).
When Ofgen pin them down in one area they seem to just leave them an alternative area to wriggle into.....

I think in most cases the reason they (utilities companies) are reluctant to give out the energy calculation is that not everyone has 6 years relevant energy bills! By giving them to you, you are better able to see you are not on the best tariff!

(For various reasons (since returning to the UK 6? years ago) I have been in places for 1 yr, 6 months, 1 yr, 2yrs and am presently at the start of a 2yr contract.)

If I know what the actual consumption was for my present place from last year I would have much better information with which to switch! (and possibly go to DD) but that means I would need the last occupants usage.

If I were to switch now then I fully expect the DD to be based on an energy use prediction .... to quote

the payments will be based on a number of factors including previous meter readings and the number of rooms and/or the number of people living in the property

In other words just about anything (since it says including)... I would expect it to be higher than I would really use! What I really want to see is the ACTUAL measured energy usage.

I can only take your BG experience at face value. That an obviously forceful person couldn't get them to accept a firm reading from you is bizarre. I am sure you took them to task for it and through their complaint process.

I should have.... it was this time last year ...I started the process off asking when I had more time and then ended up in a no time to deal with it situation! I would have persisted but things really got crazy back in December last year!

I was expecting some sort of fallout (to be dealt with later)... but they just accepted it. (least ways they cashed the cheque).

However perhaps simply writing the cheque for the actual and sending it in a letter saying this is what I used ..... see you in court. (with a few nice words in-between) is 'forceful'. At the time (kid in intensive care and huge expenses paying for a hotel next to St Thomas's) it was more trying to get the whole thing deferred.... and by the time it was we were starting to look to moving anyway!

I know why the previous owners (deceased) use was so high... as her son in law was our landlord! He was a good one that didn't rely on the rental agency to do repairs so we got to know him quite well and the neighbours also!

She had probably been using double the energy I would have done in her house for several years with the same supplier. They seemed to have an issue believing it but on the first occasions having taken a meter reading just before we moved in did not seem to want to come and confirm it themselves?

I had those conversations that go in circles with CSR's...
'the computer calculated it so it must be correct'. (although she probably said 'right' not 'correct')
"Come and take a reading ... "
"....we did one 3 months ago...".
'Yes before I moved in'
'computer say's no'.

WestonDave

Bless em, playing dumb now. That's fine because I can spell out exactly what I want and why I'm entitled to it along with the fact that if they don't extract digit and produce it, I'll be off to the EO!

david555_2

My readings were taken earlier this month and my DD has gone up from £87 to £105. As others know this was done by looking at the last 6 months (i've moved to their new lowest tarriff in August) and they've seen a 'potential' bill of £1199 next year.

I argued that firstly the 20% increase based on the last few months of very cold weather was silly when used to estimate the future and more to the point, all of the previous DDs had left me only £12 in debit with them.

This all fell on deaf ears.

backfoot

david555 wrote: »

My readings were taken earlier this month and my DD has gone up from £87 to £105. As others know this was done by looking at the last 6 months (i've moved to their new lowest tarriff in August) and they've seen a 'potential' bill of £1199 next year.

I argued that firstly the 20% increase based on the last few months of very cold weather was silly when used to estimate the future and more to the point, all of the previous DDs had left me only £12 in debit with them.

This all fell on deaf ears.

I don't fully understand your argument. If your bill was based on the last 6 months, this would cover the period from June to November. To that extent this covered a summer /autumn period and you would expect the next six months to be higher. The typical gas profile shows 31%/ 69%.

If they see a potential bill of £1199, doesn't that imply £100 per month. Why do they say £105?

What was your balance prior to the bill?

What is the annual percentage increase arising from your tariff change?

I am trying to support you, but on the face of it, I can't yet see how your figures back up your case.

jalexa

david555 wrote: »

... my DD has gone up from £87 to £105. As others know this was done by looking at the last 6 months..

Nope, nobody here *knows* that.:)

Have you been an Edf customer for a full 12 months? If so your statement contains consumption for the last 12 months. That is a good "basis". Other relevant factors are the account balance on the occasion of the previous 'annual review' (date of ???) and the account balance on the last fully billed statement. If that is the "£12 debit balance" unfortunately it is quite difficult to argue payment adequacy.

Regardless of your "case" you are entitled to ask for a detailed explanation for the payment calculation. The telephone (and email) advisers are not equipped to answer, but you need to ask the question once to have an issue to complain about. Then complain if you are not satisfied with the answer.

the_sherrif

Hi all,just a small note of positivity regarding direct debits.When I switched from SP to EDF in September I went from £100 per month to an outrageous £260 per month.As previously I had been on a fixed rate for 18 months I wasnt sure what sort of increase to expect but certainly not that much.I decided after reading the forum I would submit meter readings weekly till at least February then when I had built up a high credit balance I would then take EDF to task over the high dd.Today I received an email informing me my dd would drop to £145 per month as of 2nd January as they had monitored my uasge and had cut the dd accordingly.Although I feel its still a bit high I am happy with this and I feel its all down to submitting regular readings to EDF.I should add a meter reader did come to my home and read the meters so and I think this was their way of checking my readings.

snowcat53

the_sherrif wrote: »

.When I switched from SP to EDF in September I went from £100 per month to an outrageous £260 per month.
...
Today I received an email informing me my dd would drop to £145 per month as of 2nd January as they had monitored my uasge and had cut the dd accordingly.Although I feel its still a bit high I am happy with this .

Without more information it is not really possible to comment on what figure is right or reasonable.

Do you know you annual kWh consumption? If not get it from previous bills.
When you have it work out your expected annual spend, (eg put data in a comparison site with your current tariff.), allow for any initial balance and thus work out your monthly DD. Do NOT believe EDF figures!

backfoot

snowcat53 wrote: »

Without more information it is not really possible to comment on what figure is right or reasonable.

Do you know you annual kWh consumption? If not get it from previous bills.
When you have it work out your expected annual spend, (eg put data in a comparison site with your current tariff.), allow for any initial balance and thus work out your monthly DD. Do NOT believe EDF figures!

the sherrif,

Snowcat is totally correct. In fact, your case illustrates the point just as well as where DD's are rising. Unless you have all the information it is impossible to say whther your DD is right.

Indeed, the whole thread is based around the lack of information provided by EDF. If they had explained it properly according to the Ofgem Regulations, you would be able to see if the calculation was correct.

On the face of it,moving from £100 per month to £145 per month via a period at £260 looks abnormal to me. However, without knowing the opening account balance and a prediction of annual consumption, we can't say.

Ask EDF for the calculation which explains the current DD. You are entitled to see it. If they have arrived at a new figure they have the data to support it.:)

backfoot

backfoot wrote: »

I have now received EDF's response to the Energy Ombudsman's ruling that they should provide me their explanation of the February DD change.

' On the 6 February 2012, we reassessed Mr. X's dual fuel monthly payments and changed the, to £71.00. Mr.X's electricity use between 8 August 2011 and 3 Februrary 2012 was £187.19 including VAT, which is approximately £30 per month. His gas usage between 8 August 2011 and 3 February 2012 was £246.87 including VAT which is approximately £40 per month. The payments were set at £71.00 per month to cover the outstanding balance of £13.93 and Mr. x's future use.'

Executive Liaison
Energy Sourcing and Customer Supply.

I complained to EDF about this response.

I have received the following which totally vindicates my complaint and admits to failings in their process at the time. Pretty sure that their obstruction of my request for a calculation, was down to trying to hide this fact.

'Thank you for your email dated 8 December 2012.

Please accept my sincere apologies that you remain dissatisfied with my response as requested by Ombudsman Services: Energy.

The calculation provided in my letter dated 6 December 2012 is the calculation that was used to reassess Mr X’s monthly Direct Debit in February 2012. At the time of Mr X’s reassessment our system did not take into consideration any discounts that were applied such as the Dual Fuel discount.

We are aware that the calculation used to reassess Mr X’s payments was not as accurate as it would have been based on a full 12 month period. Mr X’s future use was based on an average of the energy use between 8 August 2011 and 3 February 2012.

Based on the feedback provided by our customers, we have made changes to the way our Direct Debit reassessment process works. Any changes in payment now take into consideration all discounts and the predicted use up to the month of the annual reassessment which in the case of Mr X is August.'