ryan air not cheap!! read this don't get stung!

MarkyMarkD

peterbaker wrote: »

First let me answer scoopers question, because none of you appear to have answered it concisely preferring instead to promulgate my thread drift!!

Scooper, I can't find Salue? Do you mean Salve near Bari? Pardon my ignorance of the destination, but I assume you definitely are using Ryanair, anyway?

I believe Scooper meant Salou, near Barcelona (and Ryanair fly to Reus which is the nearest airport to Salou). I should know as I am staying in Salou in 5 weeks' time.

That's your assertion, but I still think my point about the invalidity of apparently positive safety comparisons between purchased, ticketed transport and self-transport is a correct one.

I don't agree. I think that most people have an unwarranted sense of optimism regarding safety where they are "in control" (i.e. driving) and assess the risk as far lower than it really is. The idea that just because you are not "in control" the risk has to be zero is just silly.

I used "incredibly unsafe" as a turn of someone else's phrase (one extreme deserves another), but I do think that it is incredible that in the UK we have had so many similar types of rail accident in recent years. I am sure if you spoke to the Chief Executive of Railtrack after Hatfield and immediately before Potters Bar that he would have agreed that an imminent further disaster involving p*ss poor rail maintenance was an incredible suggestion. And then after both those two, we still get the Oxenholme disaster. That truly is an incredible record of (un)safety.

3 similar accidents amongst millions of train-miles is not a big record of (un)safety. There are many thousands of similar accidents in cars every year.

Riding public transport is not supposed to be an adventure. It is supposed to be routine.

It is indeed, but the cost of eliminating the final degree of risk is not worth spending. As I'm sure you understand, the cost of eliminating risk increases exponentially such that the cost of eliminating the last rail death is way, way, more than anyone sensible wishes to pay.

peterbaker

You get me wrong Marky. I am not advocating a target of reducing all risk to zero. I can be critical, but I am also realistic about risk. I am advocating pro-actively controlling it, rather than simply manipulating statistics to imply that the risk has been pro-actively controlled. It is a Western habit*. Look at how that Virginia Tech principal immediately pulled his disaster planner off centre stage when the planner was asked a question and replied "Erm actually that part wasn't in my plan!" The principal then quickly spun some alternative words on the hoof which were solely designed to paper over that crack and justify what few actions WERE taken, not to admit lack of pro-activity in the actions that WERE NOT. Happens all the time in our society.

How many times thesedays do you read that this or that risk is within government or within regulatory limits and that there is no evidence to suggest that those limits are incorrect? That's not pro-active control of risk - it's often abdication of liability for it for as long as it appears to be within official limits, and for as long as no-one upsets that state of affairs it is open season to direct exploitation of any grey areas of regulation to maximise return to shareholders.

It is the UK way. It's the same in Financial services as in transport ... uncle Gordon went out of his way to describe the "light regulatory touch" that he prefers for the City (and which they most definitely prefer from him!) in his last mansion House speech. We actually have the ridiculous situation where some of our biggest financial institutions fear compliance with 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley law in the States (passed following Worldcom Enron Global Crossing Arthur Andersen Tyco Adelphia HealthSouth fiascos) more than they fear anything that the current UK climate harnesses them with!

And it is in my opinion equally ridiculous that our most pro-active (in business) airline is regulated by the Irish Aviation Authority not the CAA.

Indirectly that is I am sure a very big reason why Ryanair cops so much flack compared to EasyJet.


PS
* I said it's a Western habit, now actually that WAS silly of me if you compare it with aviation in Indonesia, for example! Perhaps I should just could call it a popular practice!

MMD wrote:

I think that most people have an unwarranted sense of optimism regarding safety where they are "in control" (i.e. driving) and assess the risk as far lower than it really is.

I agree, that's why the comparative statistics are skewed in favour of public transport.

The idea that just because you are not "in control" the risk has to be zero is just silly.

I didn't say that. I said if you paid someone to be in control of your safety you would expect a routine outcome not an adventure.

kittykat500

Not clear on one point. I understand you can take 10kg of free hand luggage on board. But is check -in luggage always charged, even if it's only, let's say 10kg? The £5.50 excess is only charged if bags weigh more than 15kg so if they charge under 15kg, what is the rate?

Hope someone can help

Takecareofthepennies

Checked luggage is always charged. £5 if pre-booked with flight reservation or £10 if paid at airport.

peterbaker

... per flight (sector)

That means booked online you will pay £10 for eached checked-in item of hold baggage if you book both outbound and return flights in one hit.

If you book your outbound flight separately then you will be able to pay for bags at £5 each one way and have the option to have less or no bags the other way but that of course means going through all the booking and payment screens twice and the small risk of losing a good price before you book the second sector!

NB Ryanair are extremely sneaky if you wish to check-in no bags and you do not want Priority Check-In and you do not want insurance which are all optional chargeable extras.

Achieving no extras in your booking has been made deliberately counter-intuitive and if you are new to booking Ryanair you are especially likely to make a mistake and book an extra that you don't want and can't see how to remove.

Michael O'Leary has been doing this for some months now and it is time that something was inserted into him to indicate that a customer friendly change is overdue!

melancholly

peterbaker wrote: »

Achieving no extras in your booking has been made deliberately counter-intuitive and if you are new to booking Ryanair you are especially likely to make a mistake and book an extra that you don't want and can't see how to remove.

Michael O'Leary has been doing this for some months now and it is time that something was inserted into him to indicate that a customer friendly change is overdue!

i don't think it should be surprising that a company is out to make money (ask the girl fired on the apprentice last night!). if you find ryanair that bad, then don't use them - it seems fairly simple. i don't have any desire to fly ryanair, but when they are the cheapest i use them.

ryanair are no more sneaky in adding extras than national express and the trainline, who automatically add insurance until you stop selecting them (and the trainline has a credit card fee too). i think this is stupid and unfair and may mislead people into paying it, buti can't understand why comments on here are trying to suggest that ryanair is worse at this than other places. bus and train companies do it too, so complain about the whole concept, rather than trying to pin it on one airline!

peterbaker

melancholly wrote: »

i don't think it should be surprising that a company is out to make money (ask the girl fired on the apprentice last night!).

I don't rate Sir Alan Sugar any higher than Michael O'Leary (in fact O'Leary makes me smile more often than Sugar!). I have never bought an Amstrad product of any description AFAIK! And I don't bother watching the apprentice because I believe it often promotes most of what is bad about life in a modern business. AMS is a tv personality. Not sure what else! A Knight of the Realm, I'll grant him that! Well actually HM The Queen already did, God bless Her, but you know what I mean!

If you find ryanair that bad, then don't use them - it seems fairly simple. i don't have any desire to fly ryanair, but when they are the cheapest i use them.

I don't have the desire either, but I still fly them and i still notice things I don't like. Fair enough?

ryanair are no more sneaky in adding extras than national express and the trainline, who automatically add insurance until you stop selecting them (and the trainline has a credit card fee too).

I don't know about NExpress & TrainLine, but with Ryanair it isn't just the inertia sell on insurance. You actually need to be ultra careful and think a bit laterally if you are booking for the first time or the first time since last year because they changed it. If you try to select No Bags, you will rapidly end up with having paid for Priority Boarding unless you really know exactly what to expect and how to get around it.

i think this is stupid and unfair and may mislead people into paying it, but i can't understand why comments on here are trying to suggest that ryanair is worse at this than other places. bus and train companies do it too, so complain about the whole concept, rather than trying to pin it on one airline!

Well as I said, I think some companies are worse than others! Which is the biggest culprit do you think (in terms of extra pounds Sterling per annum obtained by counter-intuitive online ticket purchases?).

peterbaker

Anyway, perhaps we don't have to worry tonight as the Ryanair booking page seems to be down:

Ryanair wrote:

Sorry.
There has been a communications problem.
Data lines may be congested right now, or another issue may exist.

Please try again later.

Case Number: FR123456789

For further assistance with your reservation please contact
your local Ryanair Reservations Centre.

Click here to return to Ryanair.com.

That's not very Ryanair! Maybe they are fixing the counter-intuitive bits for tomorrow? :-))

melancholly

peterbaker wrote: »

Well as I said, I think some companies are worse than others! Which is the biggest culprit do you think (in terms of extra pounds Sterling per annum obtained by counter-intuitive online ticket purchases?).

in terms of ripping off customers unecessarily in a shameless attempt to make profit? all high street banks really.

in terms of airlines charging a fortune for no good reason? most major airlines that charge £200 for a 2 hour flight

in terms of airports just having a laugh? liverpool for trying to make EVERY passenger pay a few quid to pay for security (isn't it covered by the airport tax)

in terms of counter-intuative ticket purchases? not what i would consider to be the biggest industry problem at the moment !if i had to pick right now i'd say the trainline as i had to pay a £2 credit card fee last weekend and i didn't see any notice anywhere about the extra amount. i also collected my ticket from a machine at the station which didn't have this £2 included, so when claiming it back from expenses at work, i lose money!

peterbaker

melancholly wrote: »

...in terms of counter-intuative ticket purchases? not what i would consider to be the biggest industry problem at the moment !if i had to pick right now i'd say the trainline as i had to pay a £2 credit card fee last weekend and i didn't see any notice anywhere about the extra amount. i also collected my ticket from a machine at the station which didn't have this £2 included, so when claiming it back from expenses at work, i lose money!

Well if you happen to buy a Ryanair ticket in Euros (or some other currencies) using your UK Credit or Debit Card you might easily lose an extra 3% of the quoted total to Ryanair that you won't see mentioned on any notice anywhere either (except maybe here from time to time on MSE!). No I am not talking about Ryanair's published credit card fees or VISA's 2.75% FOREX charge. Any ideas anyone?