Why doesn't Cameron want Scottish Independence?

FTBFun

Hang on - I thought it was all about asserting the Scots right to self-determination? Not about black gold, Texas tea etc.

kabayiri

I thought I heard that if you do factor in the Oil revenue then Scotland outgoings and income streams are broadly balanced ? (within a few billion).

That doesn't suggest a post-independent Scotland has a surplus of cash.

Are we in danger of over egging the Oil situation?

sss555s

Oil is just one of Scotlands resources but I'm sure it is the one that interests Mr Cameron most.

That's what the original question was, right?

@kab The best the money can do is clear debt, get the infrastructure sorted and invest in the future.

We will never have that outside chance being part of the UK.

It's like the old saying. You will never become a millionaire working for someone else. Which is not so true now a days and especially in the SE

Trouble is, i'd prefer a tory government leading Scotland and that's not gonna happen


Curious as to what are the big contributors to the tax system in England and is there anything that brings in as much tax per head of population?

Jennifer_Jane

Gracchus_Babeuf wrote: »

Excuse me while I cringe painfully.

And you are wrong. The Windsors (actually Saxe-Coburg Gothas) are not the direct descendants of the Stuarts. The direct descendant was 'Bonnie Prince Charlie', but, being Catholic, he was prevented from becoming king, so they brought in a bunch of distantly related Germans from Hanover instead.

OK, I thought that she was directly descended in the 13th generation. *

The 'Stuart' spelling of her name, incidentally, I understood, was the French spelling of 'Stewart' - as Mary was half-French, French (and Old Scots) speaking, and at one stage Queen of France through her marriage.

*"Mary Queen of Scots" by Antonia Fraser, page 652. Granada Publishing Ltd 1971.

In addition, Her Maj is also apparently a direct descendant of Alfred the Great:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~havens5/p22263.htm

Every monarch of England and subsequently every monarch of Great Britain and the United Kingdom, with the exception of Canute, Harold Harefoot, Harthacanute, William the Conqueror (who married Alfred's great-granddaughter Matilda) and his adversary Harold II, down toand including Queen Elizabeth II(and her own descendants) is directly descended from Alfred.

Which, in my book, iveseenthelight, makes her English, not German, and not Scottish. So, how will the Scots pay for her keep?

FTBFun

Obviously the best way to clear national debt is to vote in left-leaning interventionist governments.....

sss555s

FTBFun wrote: »

Obviously the best way to clear national debt is to vote in left-leaning interventionist governments.....

Are you talking about Scotland, england, the uk or just being sarcastic?

Personally I think Scotland has got enough to make a reasonable economy for it's self but whether any Scottish government will do the right thing is another question.

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

The M6Toll was built by a private company using their own funds, rather than the Governments, so it's a bad example you are using.

Possibly, but they must have secure land to do so.
Maybe I could use other examples such as the high speed rail network which is only going to link so far up the country.

I understand you need to cater where the population density is, but this argument would result in next to no improvement in rural areas.

I'm sure there would still be impact on rural Scotland should the country be independant, but I just believe that the decisions and improvements can be made considering the people of our Nation only.

I'm sure there are many similar sizes countries to Scotland where we could look at for integrating similar networks to improve the situation.

I lived in Malaysia for a number of years and whilst their population is far greater than Scotland, sizewise the country would be approximately similar.

It's interesting to see the infrastructure and speed they can build roads.

Generali wrote: »

Much of the infrastructure in the UK is poor, it's not just Scotland's. Cornwall has a population 2-3 times more than Aberdeen's and doesn't have a motorway either.

You can't compare Cornwall (County) to Aberdeen (City)

Cornwall has a population of approx 535,000
Aberdeen(shire) 247,000

GDP of Aberdeen(shire) was £7,906million as opposed to Cornwall 75% of the European average

http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/statistics/area/AberdeenshireProfile2012.pdf

Notably Cornwall has received £1 Billion in EU funding and is in line for another £416 million
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Cornwall-needs-EU-8216-life-support-8217/story-15520451-detail/story.html

I can't even think of a major town in Cornwall (well maybe Penzance and that's only because of the book Pirates of Penzance) It's only city is Truro with apopulation of approx 21,000

Quite frankly comparing Cornwall to Aberdeenshire is rather laughable, that said, I understand Cornwall would also prefer independance from England.

Does that not say something when a county in England doesn't want to be part of the UK

Generali wrote: »

Apparently a mile of motorway costs an average of £30,000,000 to build (link) plus bridges, tunnels etc and according to Google Maps it's 127 miles from Edinburgh to Aberdeen so that's the best part of 4 billion British Quids for the motorway.

WOW, £30 million for one mile.
Immediately I wonder why it costs so much.
I lived in Malaysia for a couple of years and you'd be amazed how quickly they installed their highways, bridges, tunnels, flyovers n'all.

Might look to see if you could break down the costs better. I'm sure there are a lot of savings that could be made.

Generali wrote: »

Then you need to cross the Forth and the Tay which would cost a few hundred million between them but let's say for the sake of argument that crossing both is free. The Department of Transport's roads budget for the UK is £3,800,000,000. To put it another way, this motorway with river crossings sitting on the backs of unicorns would cost more than 3% of Scottish GDP, assuming Scotland gets all the gas and oil from the Northern part of the North Sea.

Ok they're the negatives.
Whats the positives to be had from this investment and better infrastructure?

Generali wrote: »

This is all moot as Scotland is highly unlikely to become independent but arguing the toss is quite fun.

Indeed, it's interesting and fun.

Although I'll be voting yes, most probably the outcome will be a No. Most pople are too scared of change.

Keeping the road theme, I heard on the radio the other day that most residents around the M25 objected to the M25 being built.
The same residents nowadays would not want a return to pre-M25 days.

Most people are scared of change and the unknown, preferring a status quo.

IveSeenTheLight

chewmylegoff wrote: »

perhaps, but as my graphs and detailed analysis show, that will obviously just be the "return to normal" phase to be quickly followed by fear, capitulation and despair before the oil actually runs out in 2020.

LOL 2020.
There are existing fields which have a life beyone 2035.
there are many extensions being discussed as well.

We've not really explored the Atlantic Ocean side, with Corrib being an interesting ecological exploration

chewmylegoff

sss555s wrote: »

Personally I think it will be viable for another 30 years on what we know so far.

The graph doesn't really tell us how much oil is there.

The current (low) extraction is around $110,000,000 worth per day, every day.

Not a bad resource for a 5m population country.

No wonder Cameron is doing all he can to keep Scotland in.

i obviously know nothing about oil which is clear for anyone to see. however, i do think you scotch lot get a bit over-excited about it, and specifically a bit over-excited around the extent to which the english are desperate to keep scotland in the union because of north sea oil.

i think you will find that we don't really think about it that much, rather than there being a sinister illuminati like plot to frustrate the right to scottish self determination because we are lining our pockets with your black gold.

zagubov

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

OK, I thought that she was directly descended in the 13th generation. *

The 'Stuart' spelling of her name, incidentally, I understood, was the French spelling of 'Stewart' - as Mary was half-French, French (and Old Scots) speaking, and at one stage Queen of France through her marriage.

*"Mary Queen of Scots" by Antonia Fraser, page 652. Granada Publishing Ltd 1971.

In addition, Her Maj is also apparently a direct descendant of Alfred the Great:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~havens5/p22263.htm



Which, in my book, iveseenthelight, makes her English, not German, and not Scottish. So, how will the Scots pay for her keep?

Well the Queen's mum was Scottish which makes the Queen, like James Bond, half-Scottish at least!:beer: