Why doesn't Cameron want Scottish Independence?

zagubov

chewmylegoff wrote: »

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i can see the attraction of independence for scots, but i think if i was scottish i would be far more interested in moving to devolution-max first, seeing how that worked out, and then making a decision on full independence some time later.

Shame no-one's offering it. The tories seemed to claim the SNP wanted to offer it as a crackerjack pencil/consolation prize and they nixed it, so that's another strike against the tories should they look as though they're getting re-elected.

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Possibly the NEeds and Wants are not so different, however the allocation can be vastly different.

One of the major towns for income is Aberdeen, weher they do not have a Motorway within 100 miles (Perth) and the nearest 3 lane motorway being Carlisle. [edit] sorry forgot the Edinburgh / Glasgow link [/edit]

When you hear of fast rail links to Birmingham / Manchester etc in counction with the 2 1/2 hour rail trip from Aberdeen - Edinburgh, it does make you wonder if there will be an infrastructure benefits.

Now I do understand population demands help to disctate, but what thepeople of scotland are looking for is that their vote counts as opposed to being 1/11th of the UK

I can't name any two cities in Scotland connected by motorway. Even the M8 has a gap! That's how incompetent the unionist governments were for all the years they poured public money into whatever financial abyss that stuff disappears into.
north or south of the border
They lowered the bar significantly and the SNP simply have to behave less corruptly and incompetently than gthe unionist parties.

they're clearly managing it because the SNPs election lanslide victory and current sky-high ratings aren't due to their independence stance which the public are decidely lukewarm about, to put it mildly:D

Shakethedisease

robmatic wrote: »

That was the fault of the English for not regulating them properly.

Although, according to Alec, everything is the fault of the English.

No, that was the fault of Westminster.

Tories first with Maggie, Labour continuing it for 13 years ( with Tories howling for an even 'lighter touch' all the way.. well, till it went t*ts up that is ).. and now Tories with Lib Dems..

There's absolutely NO reason to confuse 'English' with 'political parties in power' in UK governments as you seem to be doing. Conservative, Labour, Conservative/Libdem. Those are who were or are 'regulating' the Royal Bank of Scotland and the Bank of Scotland then and currently.

There isn't a sniff of SNP regulation to be had as far as I can see ? So mabye yes, mabye no in terms of if they 'would have' regulated them better. Who knows. The fact is, they didn't and had absolutely no control whatsoever over those banks. If there's any 'blame' to be had, it certainly is not based on nationality. But on politcal parties in power at the time. And I've never heard or seen a single quote from the SNP where the 'English' are to blame for what happened with the banks.

If you can provide one, please, feel free.

IveSeenTheLight

zagubov wrote: »

they're clearly managing it because the SNPs election lanslide victory and current sky-high ratings aren't due to their independence stance which the public are decidely lukewarm about, to put it mildly:D

Indeed,
The SNP are hitting many of their manifesto pledges and it makes many people consider if they could do more as an Independant nation.

Generali

I've gotta be honest, quitting the United Kingdom so you don't get any more Tory Governments is crazy, absolute madness. It really seems to be the only really good argument in favour of going it alone.

Certainly the economic and political benefits will be non-existent or worse. As for the Aberdeen road, do many people drive from Edinburgh to Aberdeen?

FTBFun

zagubov wrote: »

They lowered the bar significantly and the SNP simply have to behave less corruptly and incompetently than gthe unionist parties.

I take it you didn't see the TV programme re the Donald Trump resort in Aberdeenshire, then?

As the SNP did what pretty much every politician does eventually - pander to the whims of a billionaire rather than the local population.

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

I've gotta be honest, quitting the United Kingdom so you don't get any more Tory Governments is crazy, absolute madness. It really seems to be the only really good argument in favour of going it alone.

Certainly the economic and political benefits will be non-existent or worse. As for the Aberdeen road, do many people drive from Edinburgh to Aberdeen?

Almost half way between Aberdeen / Edinburgh is a town called Dundee which you pass.

On Saturday morning, there was an accident which meant that people had to divert to the old coast road as the dual carriageway was shut.

The distance is 65 miles which it is reported it took people approx 3 1/2 hours to travel.

Not exactly great to travel at an average speed of 18.5 miles per hour between two cities.

An indication that the infrastructure is not great.

If you want to discuss numbers of travellers, the Birmingham bypass was created to supliment the already existing road infrastructure.
Every time I've used the "Toll road" it's relatively empty (meaning I only see one or two other vehicals at the same time)

Surely instead of creating a second road for that community which in hindsight is not widely used, the money could have been spent on roads where the usefullness would have been better appreciated.

IveSeenTheLight

P.S. the Existing Aberdeen / Edinburgh road is frought with traffic accidents as many juntions are still T junction / crossing points instead of slip roads.

That's how far behind the road infrastructureis.

FTBFun

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Almost half way between Aberdeen / Edinburgh is a town called Dundee which you pass.

On Saturday morning, there was an accident which meant that people had to divert to the old coast road as the dual carriageway was shut.

The distance is 65 miles which it is reported it took people approx 3 1/2 hours to travel.

Not exactly great to travel at an average speed of 18.5 miles per hour between two cities.

An indication that the infrastructure is not great.

If you want to discuss numbers of travellers, the Birmingham bypass was created to supliment the already existing road infrastructure.
Every time I've used the "Toll road" it's relatively empty (meaning I only see one or two other vehicals at the same time)

Surely instead of creating a second road for that community which in hindsight is not widely used, the money could have been spent on roads where the usefullness would have been better appreciated.

A few points:
- the Midlands is somewhat denser populated: 420 people per sq km http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/regional-trends/region-and-country-profiles/key-statistics-and-profiles---august-2012/key-statistics---west-midlands--august-2012.html
- a little older but Dundee is 85 people per sq km: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/08/changing_uk/radio/html/dundee.stm

This would indicate that road building is more worthwhile in the denser populated Midlands.

The M6 toll was privately funded and built by a subsidiary of the Macquarie Group.

Since 2006, transport in Scotland has been a devolved power. Maybe instead of overriding Aberdeenshire residents' concerns over development projects on sites of scientific special interest, some road-building could have been given the greenlight instead?

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Surely instead of creating a second road for that community [Birmingham] which in hindsight is not widely used, the money could have been spent on roads where the usefullness would have been better appreciated.

The M6Toll was built by a private company using their own funds, rather than the Governments, so it's a bad example you are using.

Much of the infrastructure in the UK is poor, it's not just Scotland's. Cornwall has a population 2-3 times more than Aberdeen's and doesn't have a motorway either.

Apparently a mile of motorway costs an average of £30,000,000 to build (link) plus bridges, tunnels etc and according to Google Maps it's 127 miles from Edinburgh to Aberdeen so that's the best part of 4 billion British Quids for the motorway.

Then you need to cross the Forth and the Tay which would cost a few hundred million between them but let's say for the sake of argument that crossing both is free. The Department of Transport's roads budget for the UK is £3,800,000,000. To put it another way, this motorway with river crossings sitting on the backs of unicorns would cost more than 3% of Scottish GDP, assuming Scotland gets all the gas and oil from the Northern part of the North Sea.

This is all moot as Scotland is highly unlikely to become independent but arguing the toss is quite fun.

Jennifer_Jane

I saw a chink of weakness in Kim Jung Salmon (see post 178 by Loughton Monkey), the other day. It's the first time I've heard him say what will happen 'if' he's in power in the future, rather than 'when'. Perhaps he's beginning to understand that this kind of hubris may not be helpful when the proper debate begins.

The man appears to be a rotten fool - on Sunday Politics he was asked the Passport question. He sneered at Andrew Neill and said 'When was the last time you used a passport to get to Ireland? There's a common travel arrangement." Well, yes, Alex, but you'll need your own passports to get out of Scotland to fly anywhere. I see lots of short-term business coming into England and Wales for new driving licenses, passports, and the other bits and pieces of people's lives. Or will Westminster be generous and say you can keep your current driving licences?

I bet the patriotic Scots will want their own passports, and indeed, surely they will have to have them.

And, despite receiving a history lesson from someone when I mentioned it previously, how will Westminster 'charge' Scotland for the cost of the Monarchy*? At the moment this cost comes out of the tax system, but the Scots will have a separate tax system, where "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is yours" (this is a pre-nuptial system in South Africa, but I think it works well here too).

*(Yes, I do know that our lovely Queen is descended from Mary Queen of Scots, and the various Stewarts.). But someone has to pay for her. How will it work?