Why doesn't Cameron want Scottish Independence?

adouglasmhor

pqrdef wrote: »

I reiterate my earlier suggestion that England should vote to break up the UK.

Is there any reason we wouldn't want to? Or is it contended that we don't have the right to?

Of course you have, just get England’s parliament to propose a referendum, (Oh wait you better campaign to get the UK parliament to have a referendum to set up a parliament for England, then elect a party that supports this choice), and then the Government(s) can sort it out.

Loughton_Monkey

adouglasmhor wrote: »

Of course you have, just get England’s parliament to propose a referendum, (Oh wait you better campaign to get the UK parliament to have a referendum to set up a parliament for England, then elect a party that supports this choice), and then the Government(s) can sort it out.

In a sense, we could consider this situation as very similar to a divorce. Imagine that all prior law and conventions about splitting property, children, access to children, money matters etc. are simply thrown out of the window. All such matters will be dictated by a single specific person appointed simply to make a one-off decision in your case.

Now get the man and woman to "vote" either for or against a divorce.

I think both parties would be extremely reluctant to vote "yes" unless or until they know how the 'goodies' and [custody of, or access to] the kids were going to be allocated?

zagubov

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

In a sense, we could consider this situation as very similar to a divorce. Imagine that all prior law and conventions about splitting property, children, access to children, money matters etc. are simply thrown out of the window. All such matters will be dictated by a single specific person appointed simply to make a one-off decision in your case.

Now get the man and woman to "vote" either for or against a divorce.

I think both parties would be extremely reluctant to vote "yes" unless or until they know how the 'goodies' and [custody of, or access to] the kids were going to be allocated?

We could. Or we could treat it as if it was grown-up children leaving home to make their way in the world. Why do you associate the moving out of a family member with a bitter break-up?

pqrdef

zagubov wrote: »

We could. Or we could treat it as if it was grown-up children leaving home to make their way in the world.

I can't see any comparison with either scenario. There's nothing in the Acts of Union about the parties retaining the power to change their minds and go their separate ways. Scotland and England ceased to exist, and are therefore in no position to decide any such thing, although of course the UK can choose do divide itself in that or any other way.

Maybe if the UK is going to split, it should split on the Danelaw boundary, or the old Roman provincial boundary, or at Hadrian's Wall. What makes Salmond think his option is the only one on the table? Medieval Scotland never worked as a nation anyway - Scottish identity is mostly a Victorian fiction.

IveSeenTheLight

Sapphire wrote: »

On a news programme tonight, it was said (by that woman who partners Salmon) that if Scotland became independent it would want to retain the pound and follow Bank of England interest rates. Surely that would be totally wrong – if Scotland was independent it should set its own interest rates and have nothing to do with Britain's economy. (And in that event all benefits to Scottish people should of course be paid for by Scotland, not by Britain's taxpayers.)

Surely your thinking about this the wrong way.
The founder of the Bank of England was Sir William Paterson.
He was Scottish ;o)

Surely if Scotland gained independance, the agreement should be that Cameron asks Salmond to retain the pound ;o)

Zekko

dld2s wrote: »

too much trouble is it! there is always the option of turning the TV over, reading a book, speaking to a friend/family member, make a cup of tea or a multitude of other things you could do if it annoys you so much having to watch the Scottish football results, hey, you could even put a post on MSE to divert you for a couple of minutes.

I could be wrong? but last I heard there was no law requiring you to watch/listen to football results from any country let alone the Scottish results

It is annoying yes, so I agree it would be better if it wasn't shown in the first place, especially as the quality of the Scottish league is dire anyway!

pqrdef

Zekko wrote: »

It is annoying yes, so I agree it would be better if it wasn't shown in the first place, especially as the quality of the Scottish league is dire anyway!

Basically it's a hangover from the days of football pools. But the BBC has its own reasons for over-promoting Scottish football.

zagubov

pqrdef wrote: »

I can't see any comparison with either scenario. There's nothing in the Acts of Union about the parties retaining the power to change their minds and go their separate ways. (I recall someone saying that there were breaches that could occur that would invalidate it eg if they reduced the representation of Scottish MPs in the parliament, but, never mind) Scotland and England ceased to exist, and are therefore in no position to decide any such thing, although of course the UK can choose do divide itself in that or any other way.

(The original EU treaty had no provision for a member state to leave either - why isn't that a problem)
Maybe if the UK is going to split, it should split on the Danelaw boundary, or the old Roman provincial boundary, or at Hadrian's Wall. What makes Salmond think his option is the only one on the table? Medieval Scotland never worked as a nation anyway - Scottish identity is mostly a Victorian fiction.

Well it had a universal education system including a massively bigger higher education sector with a literate population and advanced medical knowledge, foreign embassies, a currency and banking system and a (rubbish) empire. So I suppose you'd argue that Greece in Roman times never worked as a country.:rotfl:

chewmylegoff

zagubov wrote: »

We could. Or we could treat it as if it was grown-up children leaving home to make their way in the world. Why do you associate the moving out of a family member with a bitter break-up?

Happy with that, we'll be the parents, obviously. So you can give your key back and leave. You get no assets, we'll be keeping all of those for ourselves. You will have to borrow heavily for the first few years to fund your 'education' until you 'graduate' and are able to support yourselves. We'll chuck in a token allowance to help out but it will make no real difference to your gathering debts.

You'll come back crying of course, cap in hand, begging to move back in, we'll chuck you a £20 now and then but you're not moving back in. Parents know that tough love is best - you've got to learn to make your own way in the world. Besides, we rather like the expense and quiet without all your tantrums! You can house sit whilst we go on a cruise though.

CKhalvashi

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Happy with that, we'll be the parents, obviously. So you can give your key back and leave. You get no assets, we'll be keeping all of those for ourselves. You will have to borrow heavily for the first few years to fund your 'education' until you 'graduate' and are able to support yourselves. We'll chuck in a token allowance to help out but it will make no real difference to your gathering debts.

You'll come back crying of course, cap in hand, begging to move back in, we'll chuck you a £20 now and then but you're not moving back in. Parents know that tough love is best - you've got to learn to make your own way in the world. Besides, we rather like the expense and quiet without all your tantrums! You can house sit whilst we go on a cruise though.

This isn't the case where I'm originally from, but a University education is free (in fact, in the area I'm from there are the largest number of graduates in the world). The system in that country works well.

I do feel, however, that there are many cultural differences with things like this, and therefore, bringing up my own children as if we were in my home country, I wouldn't like to comment.

CK