Advice on gas usage, incorrect billing and checking please

jalexa

eclareb wrote: »

The pipe at the boiler and at the meter is 22gauge/mm (not sure) and all he was kept saying is it needs a bigger pipe.

Approximately how many metres is it from the meter to the boiler?

eclareb

jalexa wrote: »

Approximately how many metres is it from the meter to the boiler?

A rough guess is about 24 meters but not a straight run. Goes under living room floor, guessing up in hall, but not sure (thats the only boxing in I know of) and then under 1 small bedroom and bathroom floors.

The installers came to visit after the worcester guy. He said he's been doing this 22years and has never had to install a 28mm pipe before. He said that 22mm should be more than adequate for one gas appliance. (of course he would say this, but when he installed it was running ok,) but he did agree that 5 is exceptionally low.

Realistically could the pipe become that blocked in 12 months?

jalexa

eclareb wrote: »

A rough guess is about 24 meters but not a straight run.

OMG. The answer is in Table 1, your boiler uses approx. 3.25m^3/hr, so depending on bends 12-15m max.

http://www.ukcopperboard.co.uk/literature/pdfs/Installation-Tips/Domestic-gas-planning-and-sizing.pdf

I speculated whether hidden sections were 15mm:( or 28mm:) but the installer has condemned his own knowledge. A (then) CORGI competence failure, if repeated now a Gas Safe competence failure. Really you should report this operative to Gas Safe.

In an installation with this fault (possibly anywhere your installer worked), an open flame, typically a hob burner on low, might extinguish. Eventually - BOOM.

eclareb

jalexa wrote: »

OMG. The answer is in Table 1, your boiler uses approx. 3.25m^3/hr, so depending on bends 12-15m max.

http://www.ukcopperboard.co.uk/literature/pdfs/Installation-Tips/Domestic-gas-planning-and-sizing.pdf

I speculated whether hidden sections were 15mm:( or 28mm:) but the installer has condemned his own knowledge. A (then) CORGI competence failure, if repeated now a Gas Safe competence failure. Really you should report this operative to Gas Safe.

In an installation with this fault (possibly anywhere your installer worked), an open flame, typically a hob burner on low, might extinguish. Eventually - BOOM.

HI

Im sensing from the OMG that this is not good.
Thanks for the info, Ive tried to read it, but its not making a lot of sense to me. Does the table show the max lengths of pipe that should be used?

The original installer is saying that when he installed everything was ok. Im sceptical of this as no one else has touched the boiler apart from them. Havent had a prob with it so havent needed to!

* Is it realistic for the supply to have been 24 and then suddenly drop to 5? (havent had any building works or disturbance in the house in that time).

I have the receipt/read out from the installation, its like a till receipt.
* Would that indicate that the gas supply was not as it should be?

When I tried to ask the worcester guy this onthe phone yesterday he was very non-committal about any of it. He just said that they need to put the pipes right.

Original installer is saying he wont do this free of charge.
*Should this have been checked at installation as part of the job?
*Would threatening to report him do any good, its quite a big company?

macman

The original installer failed to install a gas pipe that was adequately sized for the required flow over that distance.
It's a serious competency issue, so I suggest that you make a written complaint to the MD of that company, and copy it to GSR.
I cannot see what their defence would be against replacing it without charge.

jalexa

eclareb wrote: »

The original installer is saying that when he installed everything was ok.

I'll reply more fully later. In the meantime is this checklist familiar? If you were not given one on final commissioning you need to find out if the installer was registered for the Benchmark scheme or not. It's blue if that helps jog the memory.

http://www.centralheating.co.uk/system/uploads/attachments/0000/4348/Gas_Boiler_System_Commissioning_Checklist___Service_Record_V4_0710.pdf

eclareb

Thanks macman
sorry to harp on about it but do you know if this receipt is any indication that things were as they should be/ or not at the point of installation. If he is saying that they were, would the receipt verify this or not?

Obviously they are the 'experts' in this case and Im very much not! I used them because I had faith in their work and didnt feel flannelled by sales patter, but now Im feeling a bit out on a limb with the possibility of major work/major costs....
Ive looked at Gas safe site, but it only seems to say they will send a letter to the company once theyve looked at the work which could take 3 weeks!

macman

I don't see the relevance of a receipt, unless they are claiming that someone else has modified the pipework since?

jalexa

eclareb wrote: »

Ive looked at Gas safe site, but it only seems to say they will send a letter to the company once theyve looked at the work which could take 3 weeks!

Well get started on the letter without delay. As you have described it this is an open and shut case because the boiler gas rate and the pipework design capacity is a matter of fact, and the pipework is demonstrably inadequate.

eclareb

jalexa wrote: »

I'll reply more fully later. In the meantime is this checklist familiar? If you were not given one on final commissioning you need to find out if the installer was registered for the Benchmark scheme or not. It's blue if that helps jog the memory.

http://www.centralheating.co.uk/system/uploads/attachments/0000/4348/Gas_Boiler_System_Commissioning_Checklist___Service_Record_V4_0710.pdf

Hi, yes its in the back of the book.
States:
system has been flushed: yes
cleaner was used: x400
inhibitor was used : x 100

Central Heating measure and record:
Gas Rate: no entry
Burner Operating pressure: no entry
Central Heating Flow Temp: 68 dec C
Central Heating Return Temp: 55 deg C

Domestic Hot water Mode
Gas Rate: 2.76m3/hr

CO2 9.7%
CO 29 ppm
CO/CO2 Ratio: 0.0003

Does this suggest incompetency in installation - that the gas rate and operating pressure have either been missed or left off intentionally?