An energy revolution - Smart meter technology

ani_26

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Offering smart meters as a switching perk.

Given its been ruled that previous meters don't need to be to industry specs, its unclear if everyone has a true smart meter. By rushing in to grab more customers, it might mean these meters will not be as smart as those that are compliant when the DCC goes live. So, your meter doesn't continue to be smart when you switch unlike later compliant meters.

That's why i stated only Britiish Gas and Eon are offering the true smart meters. That's what i've been told, anyway. I've also been told as the technology is advancing so quickly, i will have subsequent meter upgrades.

victor2

ani_26 wrote: »

All the estimations are irrelevant, as the meter provides " real time " information, and tells me exactly how much energy i am using, and how much it is costing / has cost, ( of course, nothing is ever 100% reliable,) and i can only assume the information i am being fed is as close to the truth as one could hope for?

As Cardew pointed out, you can't look at a specific moment and say that is what a particular appliance costs to run.
For example, my fridge/freezer takes about 320W when the compressor runs and 750W when the defrost heater runs. In a day it uses around 2.6kWh though. So, the daily cost would be 2.6 times the kWh rate? Not quite - as you have to consider the standing charge or tiered charging, plus VAT and any discount you may get.
Having said that though, I monitor my daily cost and compare that to the previous year or month. It is useful to see what causes changes in cost and specifically how many kWh particular appliances or systems use.

zeupater

ani_26 wrote: »

... It hasn't cost me anything, and it shouldn't cost you anything.

Hi

I think that the underlying issue has been missed ...

As electricity and gas meters are replaced on a regular basis there is already a charge for this included within the standing charge/tier1 element of everyone's electricity & gas bills .... However, the industry at large have convinced the 'powers that be' that the estimated ~£12bn cost of the smartmeter project can/should be recovered from the customer base - has anyone noticed an increase in their standing charge or tier1/tier2 price differential recently ?, so we're effectively paying for the meters twice, once within the long standing metering charge element, and again through the 'special' smartmeter project.

It is actually costing you and me and everyone else, therefore there is an obvious issue if the smartmeters provided will not be effectively 'futureproofed' at the point of installation. As it stands, if you see the functionality of the smartmeter as simply being the supply of a remote monitor then at a £500/property over time it's a lot more expensive than a standard monitor which would typically retail on the highstreet at ~£30-£40 ....

I for one believe that considering that the project is 'costing' me and every other of the other ~25million households in the country around £500, then there should be no guesswork at all and the system should have the capability of providing all of the information which I would expect of it, as it is all I can see is a cost to the energy suppliers of ~£100/household (or less) and a swelling of profits of ~£400/household with the added benefit of no meter readings, which would likely save the industry somewhere between £250million and £500million each year .... Considering that the project has the backing of both Ofgem & DECC it's pretty obvious that they've both had the (eco-)wool pulled over their eyes, I sometimes simply wonder whether they've got a single calculator and a braincell between them ...

HTH
Z

ani_26

victor2 wrote: »

As Cardew pointed out, you can't look at a specific moment and say that is what a particular appliance costs to run.
For example, my fridge/freezer takes about 320W when the compressor runs and 750W when the defrost heater runs. In a day it uses around 2.6kWh though. So, the daily cost would be 2.6 times the kWh rate? Not quite - as you have to consider the standing charge or tiered charging, plus VAT and any discount you may get.
Having said that though, I monitor my daily cost and compare that to the previous year or month. It is useful to see what causes changes in cost and specifically how many kWh particular appliances or systems use.

I am aware you have to add the cost of standing charges, vat, etc, and therefore i can estimate what i expect the cost of my bills to be. I've also kept regular checks on my meter readings.


The whole point of the smart meter, makes it possible for you to see exactly how much you are spending, as you are using energy.

For instance, the only item i have which uses gas, is my combi boiler for the central heating and hot water, ( i don't have a cooker.) The " real time " gives me the facility to see i have spent 48p on gas so far today, and 96p the previous day. As i can see how much i am spending whilst the heating is in operation, this gives me the ability to switch the heating off when i have reached the amount of money i want to spend on any given day.

I am still frankly amazed at how little i spend on the actual energy i use, in relation to the size of my bills, (standing charges, vat, etc.)

ani_26

zeupater wrote: »

As electricity and gas meters are replaced on a regular basis

Not sure about that one. The gas meter i've just had replaced measured usage in cubic feet...............:rotfl:

It is actually costing you and me and everyone else, .

Good enough reason to have one installed?

As it stands, if you see the functionality of the smartmeter as simply being the supply of a remote monitor then at a £500/property over time it's a lot more expensive than a standard monitor which would typically retail on the highstreet at ~£30-£40 ....

Maybe you missed the point a standard monitor isn't the same as a smart meter and visual display?


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=what%20is%20the%20difference%20between%20a%20smart%20meter%20and%20a%20standard%20monitor&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.which.co.uk%2Fenergy%2Fcreating-an-energy-saving-home%2Fguides%2Fsmart-meters-and-energy-monitors-explained%2Fwhat-is-a-smart-meter%2F&ei=aQZjUJeqA8nW0QXCpYCgAQ&usg=AFQjCNF-Mwk8sDxfF43spPp04X8jibBsPQ

Cardew

ani_26 wrote: »

Maybe you missed the point a standard monitor isn't the same as a smart meter and visual display?


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=what%20is%20the%20difference%20between%20a%20smart%20meter%20and%20a%20standard%20monitor&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.which.co.uk%2Fenergy%2Fcreating-an-energy-saving-home%2Fguides%2Fsmart-meters-and-energy-monitors-explained%2Fwhat-is-a-smart-meter%2F&ei=aQZjUJeqA8nW0QXCpYCgAQ&usg=AFQjCNF-Mwk8sDxfF43spPp04X8jibBsPQ

Thank you for the link - it confirms what us cynics have been stating above. e.g.

The government wants to roll out smart meters to homes across the country at a cost of at least £11 billion but Which? believes the roll-out is flawed. It has the potential to further undermine consumer confidence as well as cost consumers millions more than the initial estimate - so Which? is calling on the government to stop and review the smart meter roll-out.


While smart meters won’t necessarily mean lower bills for consumers, it’s estimated that they will save energy suppliers more than £300m a year, by removing the need to take meter readings or deal with bill disputes.

Yet the government is planning to allow energy suppliers to pass on the cost of smart meters (at least £11 billion) through higher energy bills.

At the moment, the roll-out is being led by the energy companies with no checks in place to make sure that costs don't spiral. There is no scrutiny of the costs accrued and how these are passed on to consumers, meaning that £11bn figure could grow.

While smart meters will mean more accurate bills, they themselves will not save you money. The government says smart meters will come with visual display units that, like energy monitors, would allow you to view your real-time electricity usage

Of far more use to most people is the simple 'plug-in' power meter(costing about a tenner) that enables people to see the cost of running any plug-in appliance e.g. my fridge uses 8.2 kWh a week.

You really don't need to have a master's degree in Electrical engineering to understand that a 3kW immersion heater will show as using - er - 3kW on a smart meter or energy monitor. The important issue is how long each day/week it is switched off by the thermostat.

zeupater

ani_26 wrote: »

Not sure about that one. The gas meter i've just had replaced measured usage in cubic feet...............:rotfl:

Good enough reason to have one installed?



Maybe you missed the point a standard monitor isn't the same as a smart meter and visual display?

http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-saving-home/guides/smart-meters-and-energy

Hi

We've had both our gas & electricity meters changed within the last 10 years or so, at no cost ... I don't know what the replacement cycle actually is, but for safety and calibration purposes there must be one ...

Regarding "Good enough reason to have one installed?" ... I don't really follow the logic here, What I tried to convey is that in an earlier post you mentioned that the smartmeter isn't costing anyone anything ... well, it is, it's the proportion of the £12bn project cost which has been apportioned to you and is being charged for within your standing charge or tier1 enhanced pricing ... if there was no smartmeter project and smartmeters were simply rolled out as standard replacement meters within the existing replacement schedule then there would be no £12bn project and still the energy suppliers would have the added incentive of cutting their reading costs by up to £500 million/year ...

I understand that smartmeters are more accurate than monitors and the reasons why, supply voltage variations / resistive load v capacitive load (powerfactor) etc, however, to the average user there would be little advantage offered by a smartmeter remote monitor over a standard retail monitor. As for the accuracy of eon's remote display .... their own documentation seems to suggest that the remote unit has no ability to distinguish between daytime and E7 tariffs and has a simple inbuilt assumption to apportion usage to establish an estimated cost ... not too smart in my books ... neither does their technical information mention energy exporting - and this is very important as more microgeneration technologies are installed.

For £12bn I would expect the technology have the ability to take temporary control of high load appliances within household in order to smooth peak demands, the ability to distinguish between import and export and the ability to show the actual cost of energy as a running total which exactly mirrored the billing system as a minimum ... add to this the ability to display and warn of changes to period variable tariff charges and the ability to separately acccount for export, both in metered and value and above all this, have the ability to act as a basic energy automation system, providing the householder with the ability to control further powered items from a central console ... thats what £12bn should buy, not simply an automated meter-reading system ...

HTH
Z

ani_26

Cardew wrote: »

Of far more use to most people is the simple 'plug-in' power meter(costing about a tenner) that enables people to see the cost of running any plug-in appliance e.g. my fridge uses 8.2 kWh a week.

You really don't need to have a master's degree in Electrical engineering to understand that a 3kW immersion heater will show as using - er - 3kW on a smart meter or energy monitor. The important issue is how long each day/week it is switched off by the thermostat.

It just doesn't show the cost of running something. It shows you the cost as your appliance is running. You can't get any more accurate or money saving, than that. You don't even have to know how many kw's you are using.


Like it says, many people just don't know.

System

My OWL energy monitor tells me at the moment my household electricity is running at 2.967p an hour. I dont need a Smart Meter to tell me that.

victor2

ani_26 wrote: »

It just doesn't show the cost of running something. It shows you the cost as your appliance is running. You can't get any more accurate or money saving, than that. You don't even have to know how many kw's you are using.

So what does it say your fridge costs to run?