An energy revolution - Smart meter technology

ani_26

Judi wrote: »

My OWL energy monitor tells me at the moment my household electricity is running at 2.967p an hour. I dont need a Smart Meter to tell me that.

But it's not monitoring your gas too, ( if you have gas?)

zeupater

ani_26 wrote: »

It just doesn't show the cost of running something. It shows you the cost as your appliance is running. You can't get any more accurate or money saving, than that. You don't even have to know how many kw's you are using.


Like it says, many people just don't know.

Hi

We've had an energy monitor for a number of years ... tell it how much you pay for a kWh of energy and it'll display the cost of the power which you are using at an instant in time ... we're currently drawing 240W ... importantly, we're also currently generating 959W ... with a suitable smartmeter the energy companies would be able to credit their microgeneration customers for the energy exported, or even establish a net-metering regime ....

By far the biggest cost saving mentioned in anything which I have read to date regarding smartmeters is due to consumer energy-awareness .... if this is the case, then why not simply provide monotors which cost a few pounds and then see if the economics of a smartmeter roll-out still stack up .... I suggest that this is exactly why the energy suppliers are rolling 'awareness' into thier calculation - if they didn't then there wouldn't be a saving which would be large enough to justify a huge £12bn project ...

HTH
Z

Cardew

ani_26 wrote: »

It just doesn't show the cost of running something. It shows you the cost as your appliance is running. You can't get any more accurate or money saving, than that. You don't even have to know how many kw's you are using.


Like it says, many people just don't know.

Most of the plug-in meters show the cost in pence.

Also energy monitors.

How is it 'money saving'?

It doesn't show what my appliance is using, just the cost of electricity supply to the house.

I wrote this above:

You really don't need to have a master's degree in Electrical engineering to understand that a 3kW immersion heater will show as using - er - 3kW on a smart meter or energy monitor. The important issue is how long each day/week it is switched off by the thermostat.

Would it make you happier if I changed it to:


You really don't need to have a master's degree in Electrical engineering to understand that a 3kW immersion heater will show as costing 38.367pence an hour on a smart meter or energy monitor. The important issue is how long each day/week it is switched off by the thermostat.

As said above my washing machine will have variable power consumption during its 1.5 hour cycle. At certain points in the cycle the smart meter will show me that it is using electricity at the rate of, say, 29.64 pence an hour,(provided I can work out the cost of other electricity being consumed in the house - and deduct that from the overall cost reading!!) other times it will read nothing, then , say 1.86p/min.

The important issue is to know the cost of the washing machine cycle. The Smart meter won't tell me that, but the plug-in power meter will!

System

ani_26 wrote: »

But it's not monitoring your gas too, ( if you have gas?)

Very true.

zeupater

Judi wrote: »

Very true.

Hi

Depending on the actual model of gas meter, it's pretty easy to remotely monitor energy consumption in a similar way to how the pulse-count electricity monitors work .... however, for most people, unlike electricity, there are a very limited number of gas appliances, so the issue is comparatively simple.

We have a gas boiler .... it provides ~30kW.t of heating, modulating down to around 8kW.t .... I know when it's on, because I require heat and I'm not going to be any more likely to turn it off if I can see what it's costing at any moment ... I can simply look at the meter on two consecutive days and quickly calculate what the cost would be .... If I saw the initial cost of the heating before modulation kicked in as being £1.61/Hr (33kWhxAv4.88p) I'd probably have a heart attack, so what benefit would that provide for me ?? ..... I'd be much more content to know that the total consumption for yesterday was 33kWh, which averaged out at a more realistic 6.7p/Hr ... :cool:

HTH
Z

Cardew

ani_26 wrote: »

But it's not monitoring your gas too, ( if you have gas?)

Exactly the same drawback with the gas smart meter as the electric version.

I have a 42kW boiler. When it is working 'flat out' after switching it on, and it is supplying CH and hot water to cold radiators and a cold hot water tank, ithe smart meter will show me it is costing 131.76p an hour.

However it then starts to modulate its output(i.e. turn down) and all the time it is switched on it will show varying costs from the 131.76p an hour down to zero cost.

I will have no idea if the gas cost at any instant is for CH or hot water or a combination of both.

Again you don't need to be 'Brain of Britain' to know that if I turn the CH temperature down, and use less hot water, I will use less gas. My present gas meter shows that.

All gas meters will show me that if I have used xxkWh in yy hours.

I suppose if you are incapable of multiplying xxkWh by 3.8p, then the gas smart meter is worth the hundreds of pounds it will cost each of us - perhaps!

Terrylw1

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

We've had both our gas & electricity meters changed within the last 10 years or so, at no cost ... I don't know what the replacement cycle actually is, but for safety and calibration purposes there must be one ...

Here is the current elec one.

http://www.bis.gov.uk/nmo/gas-and-electricity-meters/electricity-meters-introduction/UK-Nationally-approved-electricity-meters/Schedule-4

Its actually recertification for accuracy reasons, not safety. After their agreed life, they could become inaccurate so its just to prevent that. Not that they become inaccurate at this point anyway.

Its well known that there are many tens of thousands of meters over the life which are recording fine.

In terms of smart meters being more accurate and having a longer certification, its just a piece of technology and it only means that they have invested in a long term gain by raising the standard. I guess the question is whether this raises manufacturing costs thus the saving in current earlier replacements might just be swallowed up in that?

In terms of life, have we really gone forwards or just brought the standard of electronic metering back up to standard considering old mechanical meters had a life of 30+ years anyway?

Terrylw1

ani_26 wrote: »

That's why i stated only Britiish Gas and Eon are offering the true smart meters. That's what i've been told, anyway. I've also been told as the technology is advancing so quickly, i will have subsequent meter upgrades.

The standard is yet to be published. The industry has however stated all previous installations to the new standards date are not to be considered smart meters if they don't conform to new standards thus will need changing.

All suppliers will be saying this but we don't truly know until we see someone compare the technologies being used against the future standard.

ani_26

zeupater wrote: »

We have a gas boiler .... it provides ~30kW.t of heating, modulating down to around 8kW.t .... I know when it's on, because I require heat and I'm not going to be any more likely to turn it off if I can see what it's costing at any moment ... I can simply look at the meter on two consecutive days and quickly calculate what the cost would be .... If I saw the initial cost of the heating before modulation kicked in as being £1.61/Hr (33kWhxAv4.88p) I'd probably have a heart attack, so what benefit would that provide for me ?? ...... :cool:

Maybe you are in the more fortunate position to be able to require heat regardless of cost? There are many people who require heat, but simply cannot afford heat, and have to look for alternative methods of keeping warm. It's freezing here, much of the time, and i require heat but simply can't afford it. Therefore i have already deduced very accurately, that having my heating on for an hour in the morning and for two hours in the evening costs me £1 a day, which is the limit of what i can afford to spend. One quick look at the display, tells me when it's time to switch the heating off. At the moment, i sit here in the evening until i am so cold, i " succumb "and switch the heating on.

ani_26

I didn't realise i am at the forefront of such new technology, which would appear is doomed to failure? A recent survey by Ipsos Mori, shows that more than half the population ( 51%,) haven't heard of smart meters, and i was one of those people.

As with anything new, there is always going to be the " anti " brigade? the main concerns being overall cost of installation to all consumers, the potential invasion of privacy, the concern energy suppliers will use the information for increased profit and raised charges to the consumer, and also the potential for fraud and hacking, i.e. providing information with regard to a property being empty. The loss of meter readers jobs, i'm not too sure about. How many people are sat at home waiting for the meter reader to call, these days? How many people already supply this information, themselves?

There will always be those people who are " protective " of their data and its use, and provision to third party companies. Certainly, starting this thread has made me think about the issues raised. However i am still not too concerned about what would appear as being a " guinea pig ", to some extent. :rotfl: Maybe with the overriding costs involved, and consumer concerns, the " project " is doomed to failure?