Girl Guides membership - our daughter cannot join?

poet123

Person_one wrote: »

We've moved on mikey, most people accept that you can be good and kind without being Christian.

So if the point of the organisation is actually goodness and kindness, rather than worship of the Christian god, there's no need for it to be exclusive.

I don't dispute that in any way. What I have an issue with is the fact that the rules have not been changed and so this particular pack leader is following them as she probably always has but she is the one being castigated. If the Guiding Association really are trying to be more exclusive they should grasp the nettle and debate the issue and adapt the rules. They are aware of the issue as evidenced by the Telegraph article, and yet they are not acting on it.

SingleSue

Tupperware_Queen wrote: »

I am a cub scout leader, and although the scouting organisation is open to all faiths, it is a Christian organisation at heart, and the guide leader is right, you have to have a belief in a higher entity, whatever that is. No reason why that cant be the power of nature or whatever. I'd say good on her for making sure the kids know what the promise means, not just saying the words.

http://scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=25,285

http://guidingmanual.guk.org.uk/default.aspx?page=19

Edited to add link

My eldest son is a leader in the Beavers and there was a small crunch point when it came to making it official as he has no belief system. Luckily, as he had been brought up in a home where there are beliefs and with a strict moral code which he adheres to plus also being an A level philosophy student meaning he understood why a faith is important for a lot, they were fine...but it was a bit of an eek moment!

That said, he would never actually ridicule or try to challenge someone's beliefs either and had a good knowledge of the bible so could converse with those who do have those beliefs, so maybe that was why it was ok.

mikey72

Person_one wrote: »

We've moved on mikey, most people accept that you can be good and kind without being Christian.

So if the point of the organisation is actually goodness and kindness, rather than worship of the Christian god, there's no need for it to be exclusive.

You may have decided you've moved on.
The rules of the Guiding organisation have no problem with your views. You can have your views, and can live in peace without interfering with them. But you choose not to.
You insist they sacrifice their views for you.
As has been said other organisations will welcome you with open arms.

mountainofdebt

mikey72 wrote: »

You may have decided you've moved on.
The rules of the Guiding organisation have no problem with your views. You can have your views, and can live in peace without interfering with them. But you choose not to.
You insist they sacrifice their views for you.
As has been said other organisations will welcome you with open arms.

The daft thing is that the OP's daughter could have lied and said she believed in God but there been no hassle at all but becuase she was honest (a far more important quality in my book) she's having all this grief.

mikey72

mountainofdebt wrote: »

The daft thing is that the OP's daughter could have lied and said she believed in God but there been no hassle at all but becuase she was honest (a far more important quality in my book) she's having all this grief.

I completely agree with you, and full marks to her. It's a bad situation, as the leader has exactly the same dilemma. She could lie and pretend she never heard it, and avoid the hasle that she now has to sort out.

poet123

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Could you please point out to me where what promise says that non-believers are excluded? An atheist can easily swear to that vow on the basis that if they had a god, they'd love him...but they don't, so it's irrelevant.

You cannot(with any integrity) take a vow which includes the words "My God" if you don't accept the concept or the reality of it.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Welshwoofs wrote: »

By the way.....did anyone else chuckle over the irony of a christian based 'promise' being made in front of a Pagan symbol (The toadstool). Class that!

And the whole story is about children performing a magical incantation in order to reveal a pagan spirit that will be able to assist the family? (Turn three times in front of the magical pond/mirror and chant 'Twist me and turn me and show me the Elf/I looked in the water I there I saw - myself').


Just wait until the fundamentals notice that......

poet123

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

And the whole story is about children performing a magical incantation in order to reveal a pagan spirit that will be able to assist the family? (Turn three times in front of the magical pond/mirror and chant 'Twist me and turn me and show me the Elf/I looked in the water I there I saw - myself').


Just wait until the fundamentals notice that......

I think you are missing the point and/or assigning a meaning which is not the intended one.

Person_one

Welshwoofs wrote: »

By the way.....did anyone else chuckle over the irony of a christian based 'promise' being made in front of a Pagan symbol (The toadstool). Class that!

When I was in Brownies the 'sixes' were all named after mythical beings too. Pixies, elves, sprites etc.

Mrs_Imp

Person_one wrote: »

No need to get so defensive that you start insulting 10 year old girls!

I'm not sure how finding a group you prefer counts as 'running away' anyway.

I'm confused by your idea of what counts as 'insulting'. If suggesting that someone makes a positive contribution by talking to their leader about activities they'd like to do, is an insult, then I'm happy to insult. People can choose to make a difference to the groups they are in, by getting involved, making suggestions for activities, discussing what the group would like to do etc, or they can run away to another group.

If girls really want to be in a group that does the activities they want to do (whether it be Guiding, Scouting, Girls Brigade etc) then they need to be the ones making suggestions.

We had an activity planned, and when we spoke to the girls there was a distinct lack of enthusiasm for it, so we shelved the idea. They spoke up and we did activities that they preferred.

It's insulting to the leaders when a girl makes out she's having fun, but then goes home and complains to her mum that she's not doing the things she'd like to do.