Girl Guides membership - our daughter cannot join?

enabledebra

I had opinions at 10 which I decided for myself and which I still hold and I doubt I'm the only one by millions.

milliebear00001

enabledebra wrote: »

I have committed the sin of not reading the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted alreadyhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8901378/Girl-guides-set-to-drop-oath-to-God-in-bow-to-secularists.html

and if this hasn't happened this forum thread is interesting:

It is perfectly possible to make the promise without any religion. I have no belief in any mythical deity. My "god" is science and truth based on fact and evidence. That what I promised to love.


http://www.guiders.co.uk/showthread.php/27521-Atheist-and-guiding/page2

I think that's a wonderful addition to the thread, but it wouldn't cut it for hardcore organisers who would perceive the meaning of the word 'God' to be very different to yours.

Philosophers discuss the existence of 'God' in terms of the possible existence of a supernatural creater, rather than a natural one. I rather think that's what this particular Leader has in mind...

milliebear00001

enabledebra wrote: »

I had opinions at 10 which I decided for myself and which I still hold and I doubt I'm the only one by millions.

That's entirely possible, but I hope for your sake that they are beliefs you have questioned since you were ten.

poet123

milliebear00001 wrote: »

It is not a valid statement because she is ten and has never thought about any of the evidence, arguments for and aginst the existence of a supernatural being etc. It isn't valid in the same way the belief of anyone, child or adult, who has never considered those issues isn't valid.

If I asked you why you didn't believe in God, and all you said was 'I just don't', then I wouldn't think that much of a premise for a belief either - would you?

I would be interested to know what the Leader would have said if the child had answered 'I believe in Jesus'. I'm willing to bet that would have been the end of the discussion, but what does that statement actually mean to a child?

Her parents have brought her up in an atheist home, so presumably there has been discussion which has in turn lead the child to make the statement she did. What the background for that is we are not privy to, but if she said it we have to accept she meant it as much as is age appropriate.

In faith schools children learn about religion and make promises around that age. Everything is age relative.

enabledebra

milliebear00001 wrote: »

That's entirely possible, but I hope for your sake that they are beliefs you have questioned since you were ten.

I question everything everyday - it's my cross to bear

enabledebra

milliebear00001 wrote: »

I think that's a wonderful addition to the thread, but it wouldn't cut it for hardcore organisers who would perceive the meaning of the word 'God' to be very different to yours.

Philosophers discuss the existence of 'God' in terms of the possible existence of a supernatural creater, rather than a natural one. I rather think that's what this particular Leader has in mind...

I don't know if it would cut it but it's a promise a guide claims to have made.

milliebear00001

poet123 wrote: »

Her parents have brought her up in an atheist home, so presumably there has been discussion which has in turn lead the child to make the statement she did. What the background for that is we are not privy to, but if she said it we have to accept she meant it as much as is age appropriate.

In faith schools children learn about religion and make promises around that age. Everything is age relative.

I've brought my children up in an 'athiest home', in the sense that they know their father and I are both humanists. We have also told both of them that many people believe in God and that the decision whether to or not is entirely theirs. I don't accept that means my children are fully informed about all the issues pertaining to the existence (or not) of a supernatural God, and would feel it unfair if they were put 'on the spot' and expected to make a 'reasoned' judgement about the question, during a two minute conversation at the end of a Guide meeting! My daughter would tell you she 'doesn't believe in God', but I know she is eight and that her statement means very little in any reasoned sense.

Many children do not attend faith schools, and may never be asked to question their own faith (or lack thereof) at all.

mikey72

enabledebra wrote: »

I don't know if it would cut it but it's a promise a guide claims to have made.

Which is quite ironic, as their god is truth, but at the same time relying on a distortion of the truth the guiding movement has made quite clear.

enabledebra

mikey72 wrote: »

Which is quite ironic, as their god is truth, but at the same time relying on a distortion of the truth the guiding movement has made quite clear.

Well, it is only a social group where you get to do interesting things rather than a crusade for most guides I would imagine.

HighlandLass

Hi,

I'm a Brownie leader and a district commissioner in my area. We have had parent cone in to talk about the wording of the promise. I think that although GirlGuiding have been trying to get away from the public perception that it's a Christian organisation there will always be some (through recalling their own experience of guiding) who find it difficult to break with this.

I would never ask one of my girls to declare which god if any she believes in. If the girl or her parents are in anyway uncomfortable with the wording then we amend it to the individual, I would not expect that a one promise fits all. If the promise is to mean something to the girls they need to have some kind of understanding what the are promising and not just repeat it because that is what is done to join.

I would go an talk with the leader and see if this can be resolved (would hate to think of a girl missing out in all the great experiences I had as a guide). If this still hasn't worked then you can contact the district commissioner and work your way up the organisation.

And a note to those who suggested going to the papers...why would you tar the organisations reputation over one individuals opinion?

Hope this helps