My costings for installing stove....

Greenfires

Different fitters will often have different preferences as to which cowls and top fittings they use - but all that end of things will almost certainly be included in the job, so I wouldn't worry too much - unless of course the gas cowl is still there when the fitters have gone home!! ;-)

suisidevw

Thanks GF. My reason for asking is that I'm providing all materials to the installers....

RHYSDAD

In hindsight I wished we'd have put an anti downdraft cowl on as the wi d forces the burnt smell down the chimney sometimes despite the register plate.....

Man_Overboard_2

RHYSDAD wrote: »

In hindsight I wished we'd have put an anti downdraft cowl on as the wi d forces the burnt smell down the chimney sometimes despite the register plate.....

If your installation was a gas installation, and a gas engineer were to detect the unreliability of your chimney flue, the installation would probably be condemned on the spot, and it would be illegal for you to continue using it.

Man_Overboard_2

Greenfires wrote: »

Try drinking through a straw without sealing your lips around it

The drinking straw analogy is interesting - I once heard it used by a flue-liner salesman, who asked the customer to imagine drinking through a straw which had a hole in it (above the level of the liquid's surface). The salesman said that the drink would squirt out of the hole, and fail to reach the top of the straw. Therefore it was always essential to line a brick-built chimney flue.

My doubts about the universal necessity for a register-plate started about 30 years ago when I was involved in the case of a thatch fire which, in the insurer's opinion, would not have happened if there had been no register plate above the stove. His theory was that the temperatures in a flue can become dangerously high if all the air in the flue has been superheated by passing through the fire.

Since then, I have tried many times to be convinced of the universal need for a register plate, but I still remain unconvinced.

There are many installations where a register plate may indeed be advantageous, but I have never seen a demonstration that a register plate will have any significant effect on what takes place inside the stove.

The 'efficiency' question will vary enormously between installations, and it is arguable that a properly installed flue liner on it's own (no register plate) will be as effective as a register plate in preventing the escape of heat .

Greenfires

The salesman was wrong on two counts. First off, it would be more likely that air would be drawn into the hole rather than liquid being squirted out. Secondly it's not always essential to line a brick chimney by any means - or a legal requirement as no doubt some people will have been advised. It can however prevent a number of potential problems occuring at a later stage - and this is the reason many installers will insist on a liner - basically so they don't get it in the neck from irate customers later on - as it's ALWAYS the fitters fault naturally, and not the fault of the householder looking for a cheap job.

A register plate will make a huge difference to the operation of a stove fitted in an open chimney, but yes, you're right that in the case of a stove fitted to a liner, the register plate will have very little or no effect on the operation of the stove itself. It does make a big difference to the amount of heat being pushed into the room though - and insulating above the plate makes an even bigger difference - a friend of mine said he couldn't believe the change that insulating had made to his previously plain register plate.

Man_Overboard_2

Greenfires wrote: »

The salesman was wrong on two counts, it would be more likely that air would be drawn into the hole rather than liquid being squirted out

I'm glad you said that - many people in the chimney business would not even have understood the question, let alone be able to work out the answer...

The flaw in your own analogy is that the air in the straw would be hotter and lighter than the air surrounding the straw, and would therefore have its own need to rise faster in order to try to create an equilibrium.

But we can carry on like this for ever - the beauty of burning solid fuel is the 'living fire', and, contrary to the expectations of gas and electricity users, it will never be entirely predictable.

And my personal opinion is that the burning of solid fuel should remain firmly in the realm of 'DIY'

Greenfires

We were talking about how the stove would perform I believe. Yes, hot air rises. Stoves however use very small amounts of air which is drawn through them in a large part by the draught of the chimney, not just by the hot air rising in the stove. This is exactly the reason that some installations in bungalows can be problematic - they have short chimneys and less draw. This is also why many stove manufacturers will state that a flue should be a certain minimum length for the stove to operate properly. In an open chimney without a register plate, the draught is more easily drawn around the stove rather than through it, and so the performance of the stove can be severely limited.

My personal view is that with a properly fitted and maintained stove and decent quality fuel, then the use of solid fuel will be entirely predictable - my stove certainly is, and the woodfuel I use is the same this year as last, and it will be exactly the same again next year.

A._Badger

My own view, just as an owner, is that there is far too much conjecture in the market - and my scepticism alarm rings furiously when I note that professional (sic) opinion always seems to err on the side of the consumer being expected to pay more.

Most end-users don't get much choice and just have to accept what they are told. It's not a very satisfactory state of affairs.

suisidevw

muckybutt wrote: »

Here's my Charnwood Cove

This now works! Cheers MB. How does yours 'sit' with building regs in terms of distance from side and back? I am asking because if another rquery. Will make a new post for that!