My costings for installing stove....

Man_Overboard_2

savemoney wrote: »

We also have in another room a coal fire not used

An unused chimney flue frequently acts as an air supply for an appliance in another room.

muckybutt

Man_Overboard wrote: »

A sealed register plate simply converts an open flue into a closed flue. Open fires have worked for ever under an open flue, and there is no reason why a stove should not work just as well (a stove is just an open fire with a door on the front).

:wall: With respect open fires are a completely different kettle of fish to that of a properly installed stove and you cleary dont know what you are talking about.

For starters register plates stop loose objects falling from inside the stack into the fireplace beit soot or masonry.
They also seal the chimney stack and prevents any smoke or other flue gases getting back into the room where the stove is fitted which is why they should be air tight.
They also stop heat generated by the stove from disappearing up the stack.
They can also stop chimney fires from taking hold in between the liner and stack ( they do happen ) if the chimney hasnt been properly swept before the liner has been fitted.

I shall ask again - what experience of fitting stoves / liners / sweeping do you have exactly ?

Man_Overboard_2

muckybutt wrote: »

register plates stop loose objects falling from inside the stack into the fireplace beit soot or masonry

I have mentioned that several times

They also seal the chimney stack and prevents any smoke or other flue gases getting back into the room where the stove is fitted which is why they should be air tight

This will not be a problem if the flue was working ok with an open fire (as mentioned before)

They also stop heat generated by the stove from disappearing up the stack

As conceded, there may be a marginal increase in efficiency

They can also stop chimney fires from taking hold in between the liner and stack ( they do happen ) if the chimney hasnt been properly swept before the liner has been fitted

That is a completely separate issue

I shall ask again - what experience of fitting stoves / liners / sweeping do you have exactly

More than you, I suspect...

Please don't take offence!

muckybutt

Man_Overboard wrote: »

A sealed register plate simply converts an open flue into a closed flue. Open fires have worked for ever under an open flue, and there is no reason why a stove should not work just as well (a stove is just an open fire with a door on the front).

Given a register plate, it is possible that there may be a marginal improvement in 'efficiency', but any kind of solid fuel appliance is so inefficient compared to almost any other kind of heating imaginable, that the difference is hardly worth worrying about.

IMHO, the register plate was invented by the designers of such stoves as the aga/raeburn, as part of a cunning plot to convince the housewife that burning solid fuel is a clean and convenient way to heat her house and do her cooking!

Man_Overboard wrote: »

Please don't take offence!

No offence taken, this is a discussion board afterall - I just think a lot of what you are saying is b*llox and incorrect

Greenfires

Man_Overboard wrote: »

A sealed register plate simply converts an open flue into a closed flue. Open fires have worked for ever under an open flue, and there is no reason why a stove should not work just as well (a stove is just an open fire with a door on the front).

Given a register plate, it is possible that there may be a marginal improvement in 'efficiency', but any kind of solid fuel appliance is so inefficient compared to almost any other kind of heating imaginable, that the difference is hardly worth worrying about.

IMHO, the register plate was invented by the designers of such stoves as the aga/raeburn, as part of a cunning plot to convince the housewife that burning solid fuel is a clean and convenient way to heat her house and do her cooking!

Stoves and open fires are completely different animals, as muckybutt has already mentioned. A stove will never work nearly as well under an open chimney, as the draught created by the chimney will follow the path of least resistance. It's much easier for the draught to go straight from the room and up the chimney than for it to make it's way through the various vents and around baffle plates and so on in the stove and up the flue pipe into the open chimney. Try drinking through a straw without sealing your lips around it! Half the reason for sealing a register plate around the edges and the stove pipe is so that ALL the draught of the chimney is made to come through the stove, and better draught through the stove means a better performing stove.

There's also a world of difference in efficiency between an open fire, which will be around 20% efficient at best, and can in fact cool the house down overall due to the huge amounts of air it sends up the chimney - air that has to be replaced from elsewhere - ie outside. Some modern stoves are 90% efficient - pretty far indeed from "an open fire with a door on the front"

As well as making the stove work better, a register plate stops an awful lot of heat going up the chimney, particularly if insulated on the top side. To suggest otherwise is just silly to be honest.

savemoney

The open fire I have is cast iron and has a shutter on it to allow smoke to go up the chimney. I have this closed all time to stop much coming down as I dont use the fire, but I take it what you mean.

Man_Overboard wrote: »

An unused chimney flue frequently acts as an air supply for an appliance in another room.

suisidevw

Can anyone advise the chimney/pot/ device I will need?

Prior to the liner that isn't in yet was a gas liner with gas cowl on the end. Presumerably the fitter will take off this cowl and replace with......... Top clamp etc? Is this correct?

Thanks all

wrightk

i cant ever imagine our stove without having a register plate, enough soot falls through when there is a slight gap between the flue and the register plate let alone if we didnt have one! not to mention the dreadful effects of a nasty downdraft on my children. why do it? not worth saving a few quid in my opinion

grahamc2003

Man_Overboard wrote: »

A sealed register plate simply converts an open flue into a closed flue. Open fires have worked for ever under an open flue, and there is no reason why a stove should not work just as well (a stove is just an open fire with a door on the front).

Given a register plate, it is possible that there may be a marginal improvement in 'efficiency', but any kind of solid fuel appliance is so inefficient compared to almost any other kind of heating imaginable, that the difference is hardly worth worrying about.

IMHO, the register plate was invented by the designers of such stoves as the aga/raeburn, as part of a cunning plot to convince the housewife that burning solid fuel is a clean and convenient way to heat her house and do her cooking!

The sealing off of the room from the flue is one of the main reasons stoves are so much more (not a little more) efficient than an open fire. 'Efficiency' here means the amount of useful heat generated per unit of fuel used. Stoves get about 7 or 8 times the amount of useful heat than an open fire for the same amount of fuel. Call that a small gain if you like, but I think it's incredible.

The reasons are that the amount of (hot) air escaping up the chimney is reduced to the minimum required for complete combustion of the fuel (google stoichiometric combustion if you like). (This implies the stove is being operated correctly!, at the right temperature and the correct opening of the air inputs). The airflow is reduced by a large margin (probably 90/99%), and that's all warmed room air escaping with an open fire. The airflow in a stove is also optimised, usually prewarmed by the ashes or over the top of the stove and, as it expands, it creates a strong draw through the stove (rather than through the room). The combustion chamber is also desgined to mix the air and fuel gasses to enable complete combustion, rather than, in an open fire, much of the fuel simply escaping up the chimney unburnt (where it causes much more tar and soot). All these advantages of a stove simply dissappear if a register plate isn't fitted, and thus the airflow uncontrolled.

suisidevw

Appreciate this has turned into a register debate, however will repost so it doesn't get lost!

Can anyone advise the chimney/pot/ device I will need?

Prior to the liner that isn't in yet was a gas liner with gas cowl on the end. Presumerably the fitter will take off this cowl and replace with......... Top clamp etc? Is this correct?

Thanks all