delicate subject - abortion

poet123

rea

Torry_Quine wrote: »

I didn't actually say anything about whether anyone who has had several abortions was or wasn't in greater need of counselling so you have made your own mind up there. I do think though that more education is needed in this area.

So, do you think they are in greater need?

Fire_Fox

poet123 wrote: »

To be fair I think you were setting me up to find the above!

More permanent as in the implant perhaps not as in sterilisation or even the coil.

Which is a hormonal method of contraception! :rotfl:

poet123 wrote: »

I don't think so, but if it suits your purpose to think that go ahead.

So, you tried all the options for contraception and none of them suited? You must be one of the very few "unlucky" ones then....

Frankly, your opinion re my designation is immaterial, I know what my stance is. You have your own reasons for doubting it.

The vast majority of contraception options open to women, especially teenagers, are hormonal methods. Some do have issues with all hormonal methods they try, it is not that unbelivable. Few doctors will use the old style coil in someone who has not yet had children. If you are being abused barrier methods are not a viable option.

Upsidedown_Bear

For anyone interested this is the 2012 guidance from the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists for anyone considering an abortion.

I don't seem to be able to post links but I'm sure you can work it out.

www[dot]rcog.org.uk/files/rcog-corp/Abortion%20Care_0.pdf

claire16c

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Which is a hormonal method of contraception! :rotfl:



The vast majority of contraception options open to women, especially teenagers, are hormonal methods. Some do have issues with all hormonal methods they try, it is not that unbelivable. Few doctors will use the old style coil in someone who has not yet had children. If you are being abused barrier methods are not a viable option.

Very true.

Also lots of women start off on say the pill, and then 5 years down the line develop a side effect like migraines which means they have to come off it. That happened to my friend, so she went on the mini pill but had constant bleeding. So now all she can really use is condoms because lets be real here, most women do want to get fitted for something like a diaphragm, if they did, more of them would be using it.

My other friend has been on the implant for 4 months was getting on fine, no periods at all, but now has constant bleeding so is probably going to have to try something else. The combined pill had some unpleasant side effect for her before but shes aware there is more than 1 type so shes going to try another, but what if she tries 2 to 3 more and nothing is improved?

You cant normally get a coil unless youve had a baby.

And the injection I think is now only recommended for up to 2 years.

So you can easily get to your mid twenties and have the options start to be cut off.

Another of my friends was on the combined pill, had some problems so went to the doctors. The idiot doctor told her that the mini pill could cause abortions and due to her being religious meant that she left the appointment with no long term contraception. I think that doctors surgery is associated with some church or something, but they were still giving out incorrect information which is horrifying.

Then my sister went on a gap year and the doctor refused to give her more than 6 months of the pill at a time because of some financial reason, my mum was like would you rather she got pregnant because that will cost the NHS a lot more when she comes back from Canada 3 months pregnant! At one point we were having to consider me, pretending to be my sister to go and get a repeat prescription, which we didnt need to in the end and my Mum managed to get it and get it sent to her, but shows that you can be trying to use a hormonal method and even the doctors dont make it easy! Thank goodness when I went travelling they didnt mind and gave me a years worth or Im not sure what I would have done.

coolcait

claire16c wrote: »

Then my sister went on a gap year and the doctor refused to give her more than 6 months of the pill at a time because of some financial reason, my mum was like would you rather she got pregnant because that will cost the NHS a lot more when she comes back from Canada 3 months pregnant! At one point we were having to consider me, pretending to be my sister to go and get a repeat prescription, which we didnt need to in the end and my Mum managed to get it and get it sent to her, but shows that you can be trying to use a hormonal method and even the doctors dont make it easy! Thank goodness when I went travelling they didnt mind and gave me a years worth or Im not sure what I would have done.

Can I ask why neither of you considered getting the pill in the country where you were living for a year? Other countries have doctors. In many countries you can simply buy the pill over the counter in a pharmacy.

I don't really see the need to take a year's supply with you.

You can also obtain condoms overseas. However, if you didn't want to obtain contraception/protection locally, I hope you each got a years' supply of those as well.

coolcait

poet123 wrote: »

Essentially, I think we are in agreement.

I don't think we are.

Whilst we may see some points in the same way, I've spent a lot of time reading your posts in this debate and thinking 'Oooh, a step too far!'.

Both in terms of what you seem to be proposing, and in terms of the way you have failed to live up to the Samuel Butler quote in your signature.

poet123

coolcait wrote: »

I don't think we are.

Whilst we may see some points in the same way, I've spent a lot of time reading your posts in this debate and thinking 'Oooh, a step too far!'.

Both in terms of what you seem to be proposing, and in terms of the way you have failed to live up to the Samuel Butler quote in your signature.

Really, well that is the essence of a forum;)

I am not quite sure that what I am proposing is in any material way different to what you proposed. You said you wouldn't single out any group for attention and then you said you had particular concerns about a certain group.

And here you say;

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=55852345&postcount=661

"Personally, I believe that any woman who has multiple abortions should have specialist counseling."

That would seem to contradict your position of counselling for all.


I think it is semantics and the connotations of words that are at issue here, "singling out" has a negative connotation, whilst Marie Stopes may say "focusing on" which has a more positive connotation to it. Essentially they mean the same, but one feels better than the other.

I note you have not answered the question about prioritising if the money was not there for universal counselling? You seem in your posts to say a couple of things obliquely but shy away from being clear as to how that would go in practice. I have to say I think you have dissembled here somewhat.

I also think that we can see from a lot of the responses on here that mandatory universal counselling would not be well received. How would you get around that?

As for upholding my signature I think I should be the judge;) of that, and after consideration, I agree that although I may have fallen short of that slightly in some posts, it was under provocation and seemed at the time, and still seems now, justified.. You are entitled to your view however.

I was pm'd by another poster who said they had reported one particular post, so the fact that others thought some comments were unwarranted goes to add weight to my conclusions.

In any event, which of us on here responds to others without showing annoyance all the time? Usually others let it pass without judgement, but I thank you for yours!!;) We are all entitled to express our opinions in a civil manner.

ETA fyi the post I referred to has now been removed by the Abuse team.

FatVonD

Since we only seem to be hearing about the poor souls who have problems with using hormonal contraception, in the interest of balance I'll post about one of my friends who has had more than one abortion.

She wasn't unemployed on a sink estate but the receptionist where I worked. She led an active sex life, she was very attractive with no shortage of boyfriends and she would regularly forget to take the pill (even though it agreed with her) and then take the ones she'd forgotten 2 or 3 days later when she remembered.

We lost touch at one point which was when she had her first abortion but then, when we got in touch again she found herself needing another and, as her then boyfriend (not the same one from the first termination) was a crack addict that she thought would pressure her to keep the baby she didn't tell him she was pregnant so asked me to drive her to the clinic instead.

I did drive her (even though I was pregnant myself with my much-wanted IVF baby) as it was clearly the right thing to be doing but I was mightily peed off when afterwards she told me that she was much further along than she'd led me to believe (I thought she was 8 weeks but she was in fact 12 weeks.)

She and I have lost touch again but I think it's quite likely she'll have had more terminations since then.

Did she know the pill wouldn't be effective? Of course she did, if you've ever read the problem page of a woman's magazine (and she was working for one!) in the last 30 years you'd know it's not effective even if your GP didn't explain when prescribing (which every doctor I've ever had has and I've moved around a lot too.) She just took a chance (repeatedly) and I don't think she's in the minority.

Person_one

So what would you have done about your friend's situation FatVonD?

I have absolutely no idea what your planned and wanted pregnancy had to do with her unwanted one or why on earth her miscalculation over the dates would make you angry.

samtoby

I had a coil and fell pregnant with it and my baby was growing abnormally onto the coil and uterine wall so for my safety the baby was aborted. Not all abortions are out of being irresponsible.

It really upsets me that I was 100% careful and I fell pregnant. I would have gone through with the pregnancy and I was trying to, praying it was an unplanned miracle; but it wasn't.

Do I need educating on contraceptive?!