delicate subject - abortion

poet123

Errata wrote: »

Poet I can see the point you're trying to make, but I'm far more concerned about the women who trash the lives of the children they give birth to than those women who have multiple abortions. As society seems to be helpless in the face of the former, I can't see how it could do anything other than wring its hands in the face of the latter.

I agree with you completely, but I think the two issues are completely separate. I am not advocating refusing abortions and so increasing the number of children who fall into the first category. Just because we try to address one issue does not preclude us from addressing both if the will is there.

Sadly, I don't believe the will is there, I think that if the views on here are representative we really don't care or think there is any cause for concern that some women use abortion as a contraceptive. I believe the plan I have outlined would make a difference, a difference I believe would be worth making, but it seems it is a minority view.

juno

Person_one wrote: »

I can only apologise on behalf of my 16 year old self for not being all that keen on getting a coil or diaphragm fitted.

Good to know that even strict condom use isn't enough to protect somebody from judgemental types deciding its all their own fault if they have an accidental pregnancy.

Some places refuse to fit coils unless you've had a baby or are much older anyway - it's something to do with your cervix being tighter. So even if you did want to try it, it probably wouldn't be possible!

Shovel_Lad

poet123 wrote: »

Sadly, I don't believe the will is there, I think that if the views on here are representative we really don't care or think there is any cause for concern that some women use abortion as a contraceptive.

This "fact" is a common headline in such respected tabloid papers such as the Daily Mail. Is that your source by any chance? (I use the term "respected" completely inappropriately here)

Studies have repeatedly found that in the vast majority of cases this simply does not happen. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC550633/
I'll selectively call a couple of things out for you:

Among other factors, a history of physical or sexual abuse was associated with repeat induced abortion.
...
Women undergoing repeat abortions are more likely than those undergoing a first abortion to report using a method of contraception at the time of conception
....
There is little evidence to suggest that women seeking repeat abortion are using pregnancy termination as a method of birth control

I am, of course, happy to read any proper, scientific, peer reviewed studies you know of that say otherwise (links to tabloid tittle-tattle or "Catholic Insight" or random blogs, are by their nature therefore barred) but I think you will find there aren't any that support your view.

poet123

Shovel_Lad wrote: »

This "fact" is a common headline in such respected tabloid papers such as the Daily Mail. Is that your source by any chance? (I use the term "respected" completely inappropriately here)

Studies have repeatedly found that in the vast majority of cases this simply does not happen. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC550633/
I'll selectively call a couple of things out for you:

I am, of course, happy to read any proper, scientific, peer reviewed studies you know of that say otherwise (links to tabloid tittle-tattle or "Catholic Insight" or random blogs, are by their nature therefore barred) but I think you will find there aren't any that support your view.

How patronising!!:T:rotfl:

The figures are on this thread, which I assume you have read?

Quite frankly, I really don't care why repeat abortions are happening, they are in their thousands, and I would assume that most people would think that if the numbers could be lowered by prevention that would be a good thing? Not least for the women involved.

However, by their very number the reasons you cite cannot be wholly responsible for the figures. There are those who are irresponsible and who think they have the "backstop" of abortion to pick up the slack.

Your own link ( from 2005, from a study done in 1998/9 so hardly current) also brings up this from Denmark;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9197806

Which states amongst other things;

Third-time aborters may represent a select group of more fecund women who become pregnant easily when relying on less effective contraceptive behavior. Recommended, to decrease the prevalence of repeat abortions, are more needs-specific postabortion counseling, education of male partners to assume more responsibility for future pregnancy prevention, and availability of postcoital methods.

Find me a current up to date study which doesn't include a reference to those using abortion as a replacement for adequate contraception.

And do try to keep the debate civil by avoiding the sly digs and caveats, it smacks of desperation.;)

This is an interesting poll from the Telegraph (does that meet with approval?);)

Should there be a limit to how many abortions women can have on the NHS?



No, decisions should be made on an individual basis 33.74% (1,545 votes)

Yes, if there was a limit it would encourage greater responsibilty 66.26% (3,034 votes)

Total Votes: 4,579

MissKeith

Where do you draw the line? I have had three abortions, I knew how to use contraception, found that hormonal methods didn't work for my body and was repeatedly sexually abused by my boyfriend at the time. I was too frightened to report him. What would you say to a woman like me?

poet123

MissKeith wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? I have had three abortions, I knew how to use contraception, found that hormonal methods didn't work for my body and was repeatedly sexually abused by my boyfriend at the time. I was too frightened to report him. What would you say to a woman like me?

I would say firstly that I am sorry that you seem to have had such grave issues to contend with. I can understand why you didn't report him through fear, I struggle with why you wouldn't have sorted a longer lasting form of contraception especially given your dire circumstances.

MissKeith

poet123 wrote: »

I would say firstly that I am sorry that you seem to have had such grave issues to contend with. I can understand why you didn't report him through fear, I struggle with why you wouldn't have sorted a longer lasting form of contraception especially given your dire circumstances.

I tried five different types of contraceptives, three caused havoc with my hormones and didn't work for my body, I got pregnant on one and another made me suicidal. At the age at 19 I didn't want a more drastic permanent type of contraception, can you blame me?

I find your kind of attitude offensive, foul and judgemental.

poet123

MissKeith wrote: »

I tried five different types of contraceptives, three caused havoc with my hormones and didn't work for my body, I got pregnant on one and another made me suicidal. At the age at 19 I didn't want a more drastic permanent type of contraception, can you blame me?

I find your kind of attitude offensive, foul and judgemental.

To be fair I think you were setting me up to find the above!

More permanent as in the implant perhaps not as in sterilisation or even the coil.

MissKeith

poet123 wrote: »

To be fair I think you were setting me up to find the above!

More permanent as in the implant perhaps not as in sterilisation or even the coil.

No, not setting you up, you did that all on your own. The implant was one of the options I tried.

I think it's laughable you consider yourself pro-choice. Pro-choice as long as someone sticks to your moralistic standards?

poet123

MissKeith wrote: »

No, not setting you up, you did that all on your own. The implant was one of the options I tried.

I think it's laughable you consider yourself pro-choice. Pro-choice as long as someone sticks to your moralistic standards?

I don't think so, but if it suits your purpose to think that go ahead.

So, you tried all the options for contraception and none of them suited? You must be one of the very few "unlucky" ones then....

Frankly, your opinion re my designation is immaterial, I know what my stance is. You have your own reasons for doubting it.