Orange 'Free' Broadband

David_P_4

[FONT=&quot]Like the OP, I also received a letter this morning informing me that as of October 2012 Orange will no longer provide 'free' broadband..

I used to have a dial up account with Wannadoo, who then became Freeserve, who then were acquired by Orange. I paid £15 per month for this Internet connection.

At that time I also happened to have a mobile phone contract/account with Orange, which I also paid £15 per month for.

When Orange took over from Freeserve, they increased the cost of my mobile phone package to £30 pcm.

Which I did not mind, as I was already paying £30 for both my internet and mobile phone package.

However this Broadband is not FREE.

Orange state they offer a free broadband package. It has never been free. If you are paying for your internet costs as part of a package, it is not FREE.

A definition of FREE would be if you had no accounts with Orange, and yet were able to use their broadband for FREE. Which of course you cannot.

[*1967 Misrepresentation Act.]

Over the years, my mobile phone package has gradually increased in cost. [The service from Orange has been consistently abysmal]

However now, Orange are stating that as of October 2012, they are ceasing their FREE broadband.

UNLESS!

I agree to change my landline telephone account with BT, over to Orange, and pay Orange more monthly landline rental for the privilege!

Blatant Blackmail.

The [incompotent] office of fair trading, trading standards, and ofcom, should be acting on the side of the consumer to make Orange admit that their broadband service is most certainly not FREE by any definition of the term.

I also dont think its a coincidence that Orange have stated Free Broadband will cease in October 2012, sending the letter 8 weeks prior to this date, as they have 8 weeks to consider complaints before Ofcom will consider a complaint.

They obviously employ many scumbag bean counters and corporate lawyers

If you recieved the same letter, please contact Orange Executive offices and complain on telephone number: 0800 0790134[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Buzby

It never was 'free' but inclusive. The cost being inbuilt into whatever package you signed up to. Nothing lasts forever, and there are major changes ahead, most likely with Orange disappearing as a brand.

OFCOM and the rest are not a consumer champion and will make soothing noises but not much else. Vote with your wallet/purse if you want to make a statement - it is the only thing they'll understand.

Gadgetmaster

dfurn wrote: »

<snip>

As others have commented if Orange want to stop my free broadband then I'd see them as having varied the terms and conditions of my mobile contract and hence I should have the right to walk away from that with no cancellation fee.

<snip>
it's for a court to decide. I'm not saying people should not complain to OFCOM, but going to CISAS then quickly on to a court might get the result we'd need. Orange would never want the bad publicity of a legal challenge, I dare say.

I like Gadgetmaster's complaint letter by the way, nicely written.

Excellent point, but whereas OFCOM can raise concerns with Orange immediately, customers need to exhaust the Orange complaints procedure, or wait 8 weeks, before CISAS will consider our complaints...by which time our broadband will be no more

I do wonder if any legally knowledgeable souls are reading this, and care to put a personal viewpoint over to us?

Thanks for your kind comments re my letter...if it helps others, I am happy :j

Woodlandman

Here is my response from OFCOM:

Ofcom reference: 1-216552397

28 August 2012


Dear Mr P*****

Thank you for contacting Ofcom on 26 August 2012 about your complaint against Orange.

I understand you are unhappy that Orange is now changing their terms with regards to free broadband. Whilst providers are able to make changes to a contract at anytime, at least one months notice should be given as per Ofcom regulations.

If the change will cause a substantial increase in the bill (material detriment) the provider should make you aware of your right to cancel without penalty. If the change will not cause material detriment it is likely the provider will hold the consumer to the contract.

In terms of escalating your complaint, if you feel material detriment has occurred and Orange will not let you cancel penalty free, you should take this through their complaints process found at:
LINK REMOVED

If you exhaust this process, or if your complaint has been ongoing for over 8 weeks, you may be able to take your complaint to an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme. An ADR scheme is an important piece of consumer protection as they are free and independent for consumers like you. Orange must abide by their decision but if you remain unhappy you are free to consider legal action

Orange’s ADR scheme is CISAS (Communications & Internet Services Adjudication Scheme). CISAS can be contacted at:

CISAS
International Dispute Resolution Centre
70 Fleet Street
London
EC4Y 1EU

Phone: 020 7520 3814
LINK REMOVED
Although we do not become involved in individual disputes I have logged your experience here. This feeds into the statistics which we collate to monitor trends in consumer concerns. Where we see a rise in similar complaints against the same company we may take further action.

I hope this information is useful.

Yours sincerely

**********
Consumer Contact Team



I have plagurised Gadgetmasters letter (thanks Gadgetmaster) & mailed to orange:



Complaints Dept
Orange UK plc
Po Box 486
Rotherham

S63 5ZX

Mobile A/C: ******* Broadband A/C: *****


Mbl *********** E-mail *******************

Dear Sir,

I write following in receipt of an e-mail & letter from yourselves, advising me of a material change to my mobile phone contract – specifically, the removal of the free home broadband service.

When I renewed my mobile contract with you, the phones4u assistant confirmed with your call centre operative that I would continue to receive the free broadband for the duration of my mobile contract and was assured that this was the case. I have actually had this confirmed verbally each time I have renewed my contract with orange.
I have now been informed that this statement was untrue and my broadband will cease to operate on 15/10/2012.
I have also been told by your customer services department that there is nothing that I can do to retain the free broadband unless I am prepared to move my home telephone supply away from BT, to Orange home line rental.
This I am not prepared to do as i have benefits in place that I do not want to loose and also want to keep my options open with my home line.

I would also like to point out that item number 6 of the original terms of use Of the free broadband offer clearly states that the free broadband shall be in place for the duration of my eligible mobile contract.
This is what I would have expected to happen if orange were to withdraw the free broadband and not try to “bully” the customers into purchasing another product to retain it.

This action will now have a significant material change to my monthly outgoings leaving me facing an additional monthly bill from October up to the expiry of my mobile contracts next September.

Despite this material change, I have been advised that I am unable to cancel my current mobile contract without penalty (£340), which I find unacceptable, if not a breach of contract.
I have already notified OFCOM of my concerns, and wish to raise a formal complaint with yourselves. Ofcom reference: 1-216552397

OFCOM have stated the below clause which I feel is the case with your current action as I will have to pay Orange an additional charge for a home line account or get my broadband else where resulting in an increase in my monthly out goings.
“If the change will cause a substantial increase in the bill (material detriment) the provider should make you aware of your right to cancel without penalty”.


At this time, I require either, and in order of preference:

· Continuation of the free broadband service for the remaining duration of my current mobile phone contract.
· Penalty free cancellation of my current mobile contract, with PAC code provided, together with a MAC code for my Broadband.

I trust that I may look forward to hearing from you by return.

Yours faithfully


I will keep everyone updated of any further response.

Eva49

Orange had 48hrs to respond to my phone call, given that they haven't responded or indeed logged it,but have passed it on to their broadband department.I went back to Ofcom and was advised to complain using the Orange Code of Practice.
Interestingly the address to which they told me to send my complaint was Patchway, Bristol.
I consider broadband was an integral part of my mobile phone contract and therefore expect Orange Mobile Service to address my complaint.
Orange executive office have agreed there appears have been a lack of communication between the 2 departments.

beelzecubz

Having spoken at length over the last few days with advisors, supervisors and managers at Orange, I feel I've got necessary and pertinent information.

The free home broadband was a perq given to run alongside mobile contracts (either new or renewed) between 2004 and 2009 (I may be a bit out there).

Once that contract had run out, Orange continued to provide the free broadband for as long as it was cost effective. Apparently, it's no longer cost effective but can remain free if taking out one of the line rental deals put together specifically for the affected customers.

Although it does seem a bit arm-twisty, having gotten the details of all the deals, for a large majority of customers, switching to Orange for their line rental is going to be cheaper in the long run than going elsewhere for broadband, even if you're in contract elsewhere.

Even for just line rental with BT for instance, you'll pay £14.60 (Which incidentally is increasing to £15.45 in January) per month. If you choose to take broadband elsewhere, you'll have the additional cost of that on top of your line rental.

With Orange, you'll pay £11.50 for the first three months and then £14 thereafter for line rental entitling customers to keep free broadband (on a definite contract - the free broadband isn't part of the mobile contract, despite protestations to the contrary).

There were other deals as well, on a sliding scale dependent on whether you're on the Orange network or not.

Admittedly, yes, customers will pay MORE to Orange each month, but will end up paying LESS for their services, and for me at least, this is, in these times of penny-stretching and pound-squeezing the bottom line.

I also checked on the broadband and with BT, Talk Talk and SKY, no matter what you pay for their broadband, there's a data usage cap and Orange's is completely uncapped (although I was told that during certain times, voice traffic will be prioritised on the network). Bearing in mind that BT want to charge a fiver for every gig of data I use over their paltry 10Gb cap, and Orange don't, staying with Orange is the cheaper option overall.

Doing a bit of maths, even if you've paid upfront for BT line rental, you'll save money over the length of the contract with Orange because you're not paying Broadband charges on top.

It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that Orange are trying to make people pay more because they're not, they're trying to make you pay more TO THEM, which is a completely different kettle of fish as people's bills will decrease (or the value of their package will increase) dependent on which package they take. They're a business, what are you gonna do?

It doesn't seem fair, considering how long the broadband has been free, but as it's not part of the mobile contract and as reasonable notice has been given, They're entirely within their legal rights to change the T+C of the offer.

With regard to the change causing a substantial increase in the bill, well, it's all in the wording, withdrawing the free broadband will cause no increase at all in 'THE BILL' because it's free, isn't it? And you can say that you'll have to fork out for another provider's broadband so yes it will increase the bill but you'd be mistaken because THE BILL specifically refers to Orange's bill, which won't change.

If all the information had been available rather than just being told ORANGE IZ BAD MMMKAY?, I think people would have been able to make a better informed decision regarding their services.

Oh, and you'll also get free caller ID, and a free voicemail service.

And no, I do NOT work for Orange...

Nashwan_3012

Rang the number 08000790134 as given by the post from DAVD_P.
The response I got from the male employee of Orange was "Where diid you get this number from?" He became most insistent that I give him this info and was basically at first not interested in anything else I wished to say. Only when it became apparent to him that I was not going to say and that I wanted to register a complaint about the withdrawal of my FREE broadband he was suddenly not dealing with broadband only mobiles and anyway I had got to start at the beginning and go through their procedure. Having explained that yesterday I had been bounced from one operator to another having rung the number on their letter to me and I was not prepared to be pushed around the system again he then said if I was prepared to hold on he would talk to the broadband guys in his office. After several minutes he came back and said that what had been done was perfectly legal and that Orange had not breached any contract regarding the FREE broadband and they would not be doing this if they were not within there rights. At no stage did he ask who I was or a contact phone number. It was made perfectly clear that he would do nothing else for me. It was obvious that he had no interest in customer relations and at this point I told him that I was not prepared to continue the conversation. He made no effort to take details of myself or my complaint. I feel very let down by Orange and hope that there is somebody out there who has the finances to mount a legal challenge to Orange. What is the point of any contract if the issuer gives themselves the right to change the conditions at any time they wish which it appears we have all signed up to. I wish I was able to issue contracts like this, what a way to eventually dump your customers when you feel that they have had more than they are entitled to. Because this is obviously the way Orange are thinking.

Benno1uk

Great post Beelzebub - I got accused of working for Orange when I posted earlier about how it's not such a bad offer.

I've been with Orange as a mobile and broadband customer for the last 7 years and think both services have been fine. Having just watched a documentary about a young army captain stepping on an IED in Afghanistan and subsequently dying, I can't help thinking there's worse things to worry about than the small print of a broadband contract.

beelzecubz

Benno1uk wrote: »

Great post Beelzebub - I got accused of working for Orange when I posted earlier about how it's not such a bad offer.

I've been with Orange as a mobile and broadband customer for the last 7 years and think both services have been fine. Having just watched a documentary about a young army captain stepping on an IED in Afghanistan and subsequently dying, I can't help thinking there's worse things to worry about than the small print of a broadband contract.

You're absolutely right, but people will always prioritise what's important to them and if money is that thing, I would at least expect people to get ALL the details rather than just go off half-cocked without at least trying to understand what's going on.

I agree, the wording of the letter/email could have been put differently and advising people they don't have a Pay Monthly contract when it's clear they do is a huge gaffe and Orange should be embarrassed for THAT, but I don't think they should be hoist aloft for a) trying to make people's services cheaper and b) acting like a business...

buglawton

passatrider wrote: »

....I've decided to move to Plusnet instead now as well as moving my mobile to Giffgaff....

Both good Money-saving choices that leave you in control in future.

Orange, do wake up & smell the coffee!