no more psychic readings on ebay

charlies_mum

QUOTE [However, with psychics, I believe that there are only people who are rogues/deliberate frauds and those who have a false belief in their competency.] QUOTE


Sorry, I have to disagree with this one. I do believe that there are psychics out there with a genuine ability, although I do question the ones who 'sell' this ability on Ebay.

I am not a grief-stricken deluded fool, but I have been to spiritualist church and seen mediums / psychics give readings (no fee charged) which I believe to be genuine. In fact, I have been given accurate information wich would not have applied to anyone else in the room.

As in all professions, there are rogues / con-men, but to tar all psychics as frauds is unfair.

RHemmings

charlies_mum wrote: »

RHemmings wrote:

However, with psychics, I believe that there are only people who are rogues/deliberate frauds and those who have a false belief in their competency.

Sorry, I have to disagree with this one. I do believe that there are psychics out there with a genuine ability, although I do question the ones who 'sell' this ability on Ebay.

I am not a grief-stricken deluded fool, but I have been to spiritualist church and seen mediums / psychics give readings (no fee charged) which I believe to be genuine. In fact, I have been given accurate information wich would not have applied to anyone else in the room.

As in all professions, there are rogues / con-men, but to tar all psychics as frauds is unfair.

Firstly, you don't need to apologise for disagreeing. This is a discussion forum and calm friendly disagreement is IMHO the lifeblood of discussion forums.

The Derren Brown link is very interesting as it shows how psychics can perform tricks that make them appear very convincing. He's done the very best work that I've seen in explaining how psychics can make people believe them of anyone. That it's so easy for people to be sucked in by sophisticated tricks (though often quite crude tricks work as well) shows why we need proper investigations into psychics and a whole variety of other wrong things that people believe. Because it's been shown over and over again that far too many people are easily fooled.

I believe it's extremely fair to believe that all psychics are frauds (either conscious frauds or unwitting frauds) until psychics come forward and submit to rigorous testing to prove that their powers are real.

You say that you are not a deluded fool, but if you say that you believe in psychics, then to me this looks like solid gold evidence that you are deluded. The way for you to counter this would be to provide positive evidence of psychic powers under rigorous scientific conditions. I could claim that I believe that there are people living on the moon and communicating with me telepathically, and claim that I'm not deluded. But unless I come up with proper evidence that these people exist and communicate with me telepathically, would anyone take my claims to not be deluded seriously?

One thing we have to remember about psychic powers is that if they existed, it would be easy to demonstrate them under strict laboratory conditions. E.g. the ebay case of predicting the gender of a baby. There would also be very large benefits to a psychic who could demonstrate actual powers. Financial rewards, world fame, and justification of their profession. So why hasn't it happened?

soolin

I think this is a very interesting debate , probably not suited for the eBay board but I won't move it as it was intended to make people aware of the changes on eBay as I am sure we have some casual users on here that have mentioned doing this in the past. As it will affect some people doing this as a business I felt that despite it being an emotive subject it was right to post.

I am ambivalent about psychics, I have a family history of people who believe they have the gift and have been successfull within the spiritualist church (for no pay) but the rational part of me can't see how this can really work, and I fear the dodgy ones far outweigh those who for whatever reason truly believe they have the gift.

Several years back a cousin was visiting a medium and apparently got a message for me by name, the medium asked me to go in but I declined. (this is a normal way of getting repeat business by the way). My cousin did take something of mine in which the medium read and gave me specific written advice and some predictions for the future, at the time to me they looked easily guessable based on what my cousin knew about me and I just assumed she had inadvertently given this info to the medium.

However, something happened that made a complete change to my life and what had seemed almost positive was likely to happen didn't. The predictions were a load of old rubbish based on a reading from info my cousin gave accidentally. That to me showed that the debunkers were right and that the predictions were based on likely outcomes taking into account info supplied by the person being read, and nothing more

RHemmings

Trying to be more on-topic:

If we have a White Witches Spell to Find a Job, what kind of person is likely to respond to this and why? If someone is out of work, then is it moral to sell them witchcraft, even at a price of £3.99? Is it possible that some buyers of this spell will be spending £3.99 that otherwise would put food on their family's table?

And should Ebay restrict listings for moral reasons? Or are they concerned about their image?

Edit: Here are some other spells by the same seller as above:

Spell to break up someone else's marriage (charming!)

Spell to grow hair

Spell for healing a pet

Spell to attract customers to your business. Another case where people may be desperate.

Less on-topic:

There is a long list of Derren Brown programmes on 4OD. However, I can't find which are best concerning psychics, and can't find the excellent programme (I may have forgotten its title) where he goes around the US convincing people that he's psychic. Edit; It's Derren Brown Messiah, and it covers more than just psychics. 4OD link

charlies_mum

RHemmings wrote: »

I believe it's extremely fair to believe that all psychics are frauds (either conscious frauds or unwitting frauds) until psychics come forward and submit to rigorous testing to prove that their powers are real.

You say that you are not a deluded fool, but if you say that you believe in psychics, then to me this looks like solid gold evidence that you are deluded.

I am a fan of Derren Brown, and have watched some of his programmes where he has exposed psychics as frauds. It is entirely proper that we should be sceptical about people claiming to be able to read the future, talk to the dead etc.

If you get chance, have a look at a couple of books by Emma Heathcote James, "After Death Communication" and "They Walk Among Us". Very interesting reading.

RHemmings

charlies_mum wrote: »

I am a fan of Derren Brown, and have watched some of his programmes where he has exposed psychics as frauds. It is entirely proper that we should be sceptical about people claiming to be able to read the future, talk to the dead etc.

If you get chance, have a look at a couple of books by Emma Heathcote James, "After Death Communication" and "They Walk Among Us". Very interesting reading.

I haven't got immediate access to the book. But looking at reviews, it appears to be a compendium of stories where people claim communication with the dead.

Having only read a few reviews, clearly I don't yet know the exact content of the book. However, could you please answer these questions:

Is there anything in the book which prevents selection (including self-selection) bias. I.e. thousands of millions of people in the world will have experienced loss of family members and friends. That gives many thousands of millions (if not more) opportunities for things to happen by coincidence. If people are asked for stories, then those who have had coincidences happen to them will respond (and tend to believe in communication after death), while those who haven't won't. A rigorous scientific test would plan to avoid these biases. Does the book guard against this in any way?

How are the stories in the book protected against distortion, either conscious or unconscious? People may report experiences in distorted (including exaggerated) ways because they don't remember the details properly, because their mind has filled in details that they didn't actually observe, or because they're lying for various reasons. In order for the contents of the book to be reliable, there would have to be significant guarding against this. Independent facts reported in the stories could be checked for truthfulness, but if stories are being reported in hindsight, it's much harder to detect unconscious or conscious embellishment.

charlies_mum

After death cummunication is anecdotal, so understand we will have to discount that book.

However, if you are interested, read up on Helen Duncan.

barmonkey

All psychics / mediums are liers and frauds, about time ebay put a stop the them, never understand why the ploice dont charge them,

mardatha

Barmonkey it must be totally fabulous to know it all!
Good post Charlies mum.

barmonkey

mardatha wrote: »

Barmonkey it must be totally fabulous to know it all!
Good post Charlies mum.

i dont know it all, but i do know bullcrap when i hear it,
if any of it was true there would be proof, guess what there is exactly none.