Relative refusing professional care...?

nottslass_2

bestpud wrote: »

That's much the same then - he would fall into the fully paying bracket, rightly so, but he just won't pay.

Please do not assume that just because he has savings he'll have to pay for any care.
Sorry in a hurry,but I've just C+P the below,wich is what you need to be looking into....................................
What is NHS Continuing Healthcare?

NHS continuing healthcare is free care which can be provided in any setting (your own home, hospice, or care home) that is arranged and funded by the NHS to meet physical and/or mental health needs that have arisen because of disability accident or illness. NHS continuing healthcare is also sometimes described as NHS Continuous Care or fully funded NHS care

jackyann

Have been there professionally & personally and feel for you all. Here is the only suggestion I can add:
Decide between you who is the most worn out (if it is someone who lives with him, take her to your house for a bit). Then say: "dad (or whoever) Jemima is poorly and she can't do her turn this week, and Benjamin's work has called him away (or whatever); we're going to have to sort out something without them".................sometimes works; as does bursting into tears (you don't have to fake this, just summon them at the right moment) and say "I don't know how we can cope without someone else coming in"
He does sound so stubborn that it may not work, but you will have done your best.
And nursing care does not cost anything, but it sounds as if he is just refusing it because he wants his family to do it.

daska

What a very difficult situation. Yes, in summary, the only way for the carers to force him to receive agency care is to refuse to do it themselves. And from what you've said about the house the chances are he would no longer be taken to the toilet but padded up between visits. Would he agree to a bedpan? It's not dignified but surely no less so than being hauled to the bathroom.

With regard to the trust situation you may be wrong about the level of complication. Very simply, if the person already has a life interest in the house then the council would have to wait for any contribution deemed appropriate - they can only touch the money belonging to the person who needs care, they can't unhome someone else who is legally entitled to be there to achieve this. You might need to have a chat with the solicitors who set up/run the trust to confirm the details and get them to write to the council to get them to back off.

However, if it's a trust to be set up as a result of his will that will be executed after he dies then it's a different matter, the care fees would need to come out of the estate as a debt before the estate is distributed to the beneficiaries. Which might possibly result in the house needing to be sold. You'd need to know figures and will details to start working out what the likelihood of that was.

It's still worth going through Social Services - the agency I use charges £14/hour for SS contracts and £14.50+ for people who approach them privately. But it's possible that the hours could be used to accomplish jobs that support the carers and free them up to help him. And the carers are entitled to SS assessments in their own right.

The other point is that there is a difference between nursing and social care. If he needs nursing care this might be covered by the NHS and he should be assessed to see if this is relevant, if it's social care (feeding, toileting etc) it won't.

thorsoak

1. Your relative has decided that he will take no help from anyone who is not family - and family are unable to cope with the help that he now needs - is that correct?

2. He has firmly stated that he does not wish to have any other people looking after him - is this correct?

If both these statements are true - then, sadly, you have to respect his wishes - and leave him in his own mess .....for as long as you can bear to do it - whilst in the background you are arranging for carers to come in and take over where necessary.

If he is in the terminal stages of cancer, there is no question of him paying for care - he will not have to pay one penny.

just tell him - there are no pockets in shrouds!

Mojisola

bestpud wrote: »

They love him - it's as simple as that.

It would be better but it seems they'd have to walk away for it to happen. I don't know what I'd do if it were one of my parents tbh - it's hard just to think about it.

It's a shame he doesn't love them back enough to accept some care.

Isn't it just as hard to think of the people who are making themselves ill trying to look after him?

margaretclare

pelirocco wrote: »

I think most of us can say , while we are in good health that we wouldnt put our family through what this family is going through ....but as you get older and your health worsens you are liable to change ..............facing death must be a very scary time , Its only normal that when facing it people are bound to become more clingy and dont want to die alone ........I am facing more or less the same thing with my own father , not as extreme as the problem the OP is facing , but I know what its like

I understand very well, because I am 'older'. I don't want to die alone either, but equally I wouldn't refuse to spend money that I've saved. Even if there was anyone who was willing/physically capable, or even close enough at hand, of doing what this family is doing - there is not. My heart goes out to them. Money doesn't buy health, it doesn't buy happiness, but what it does do is to make life a little easier, being in a little choice. But only if you're willing to spend it! I really can NOT empathise at all with this selfish, selfish man.

nottslass_2

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Mojisola wrote: »

It's a shame he doesn't love them back enough to accept some care.

Isn't it just as hard to think of the people who are making themselves ill trying to look after him?

If someone can't be selfish and self centered when they are dying,when can they be?

He probably does love them very much,but maybe he's trying to control the only thing he can.....................

Mojisola

nottslass wrote: »

If someone can't be selfish and self centered when they are dying,when can they be?

He probably does love them very much,but maybe he's trying to control the only thing he can.....................

I just can't understand someone running their loving relatives' health into the ground when there is a very easy solution - spending money that he can't spend on the other side of the grave.

His family don't want to abandon him, just to have a few hours off so that they can sleep and make sure they can keep their jobs.

No-one needs to be that selfish, dying or not.

rachbc

nottslass wrote: »

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If someone can't be selfish and self centered when they are dying,when can they be?

He probably does love them very much,but maybe he's trying to control the only thing he can.....................

dying does not excuse you ruining other people's lives and health as this man seems to be trying to do

jackyann

If he is in the terminal stages of cancer, he may have brain secondaries, or toxins affecting his brain, affecting his judgement.
Very sad.