oldest v youngest - rights and responsibilities

thorsoak

My brother is 71/2 years older than me (my parents lost 2 babies before they were 12 months old during the war) - but then there is less than 4 years between two of my sisters and me - and then my youngest sister is 9 years younger than me.

So of the "terrible three" I was the eldest - and, as the eldest should have been "the most responsible"/"set a good example"/"know better" etc etc etc. I was also the one to wade in and fight my younger sister's (sis 2) battles (she would always give cheek to the older boys and I'd have to rescue her :rolleyes:) . As others have said, I had to fight for so many things that the others got as standard.

Now I'm 69, we often talk about these things and its interesting to see how the three of us viewed things from completely different viewpoints. For example, once I passed the 11+ and went to grammar school, sister 1 (18 months younger) was automatically expected to pass - she didnt at first and felt absolutely devastated - I didn't realise this. Similarly sister 2 - who looked like me - said she always tried to do things the way that I did - again I didn't realise this. And as for baby sister - 9 years younger - when she went to the same grammar school as I did - she was called by my name almost up to the 6th form!

My mother was also eldest child - and she really did have a hard time as a child and so she was aware - to an extent - of the horrors of being the oldest and did try to invoke some priviledges for me - but my father - being the only boy and spoiled youngest - would always manage to erode them somewhat so that the others got some of it.

We tried very hard with our 4 to keep things as fair as possible - later bedtime, special times etc etc etc - but that does mean that as parents you are spreading yourselves to the maximum.

Best to acknowledge to all the family that each place in the family is special.

Bennifred

mintymoneysaver wrote: »

.....................................
And as another poster said eldest is heading off to Uni with me missing her, but I'll cope, when youngest ever goes I'll be bereft!......................QUOTE]

Actually, and maybe weirdly it was the other way round for me. When my eldest went off to university I think I mourned for almost two years! I was so sad that our family would never be the same "unit" and I missed him terribly. Then DS2 went, and somehow it was fine - possibly because he was very good at keeping in touch, with random texts, etc. Now DS3 (the baby!) is at university and I'm completely comfortable with it.

I_wanna_live_for_free

I can so relate to this thread! I'm a middle of 4 but in a way I had the older child problems. My older sister was 60 by the time she was 16, happy to go to church tea parties and the like; or sit at home watching tv with the parents. Never went out, never did anything unless with parents. Still lives with them at the age of 50.

My brother did what he liked from the age of 11, threw tantrums to get what he wanted and parents gave in to him for an easy life. He's still living there at the age of 45.

I approached my teen years with my younger sister hanging on my coat-tails (3 years younger) and had to go to bed at the same time as "she doesn't like to go to bed first". Anything I wanted she either got the same at the same time :mad: or if she didn't, mine magically broke and I would be told that I wasn't old enough to take responsibility for my own belongings so I wasn't getting another one. If she didn't get her own way she would scream the house down and it was then my fault as I had obviously picked on her for no reason.:mad:

I passed the 11+ but my parents told me I wasn't going to the grammar school as "your brother and sister didn't pass, how do think they'll feel if we let you go there" so as a result I spent the next two years at secondary school doing as little as possible as "why should I?" Luckily I realised before it got to O level stage and managed to pull my socks up, but I felt it was really unfair!

I had to fight to get my ears pierced, go out with friends, date boys, (your older sister has never wanted to do this, why do you have to be so flaming difficult?)

I got a saturday job figuring that with my own money I could buy things I wanted but parents demanded I pay housekeep from it (at the age of 14) and buy my own shoes "as you're earning". Money went from my purse and I found my younger sister taking it but "she's only little, she doesn't know any better, it's your fault for flaunting your money" (flaunting would be me buying some shampoo on my way home from work) :mad:

I have deleted so many paragraphs as it started to sound very poor ME! ME! ME!

Last straw was around 12 years ago I had a miscarriage and told my mother, she then told me she wasn't going to tell anyone else in the family and I wasn't to either as "L has just told me she's pregnant and she'll get upset, it's a difficult time for her with her hormones all over the place" :eek:

Lots of resentment here too.

OP: talk to your daughter, find out whats up. It could be she feels she's being babied/treated the same as her younger siblings.

luxor4t

pinkclouds wrote: »

.....it's easier to leave home. The younger sibling is the one that mom is clinging to, while wailing: "Don't ever leave home - you're my last baby!" ......QUOTE]

My mother, so I was told, cried all of the way home after dropping me off at Uni.
She recovered well though - by the christmas break my sister had taken over my room (fair enough) but her room was now a storeroom, filled with boxes and various junk from around the house. Worse, my bed had been broken up and sent to the tip and I was expected to sleep on a mattress on the floor in sister's bedroom as "you won't be here much" :huh: yeah - 22 weeks of the year!
I still don't understand why my parents thought that it was alright to effectively throw me out.

jakes-mum

Im the youngest of 3 (so is DH) and have had many conversations with my mum over the years about us siblings. I well aware I got away with more than my sisters when little but was also quite often tricked into being naughty to get me into trouble
TBH I never really had a 'bad' relationship with either of my sisters, and have much better ones with both of them now we are all older. They on the other hand have a terrible relationship and do not talk at all I think my eldest sister saw most of the injustices in her life were to do with middle and hardly noticed when/what I got.
Every age gets injustice somewhere along the line, with eldest sister it was all the responsibility, I think middle sister felt lost in the mix as a child she didnt have a 'special place' in the family, for me it was things like eldest got 10 years of mum at home, I got 4 as after I started school she went back to work full time. Birthdays with relatives, eldest got presents till she was 18, me to 12 because eldest was an 'adult' and its not fair to buy for all but 1 kid.

The big thing I remember from being a kid was that by the time I did anything it really didnt matter, to eldest it may have seemed like I got an easy ride over exams etc but to me it was 'well it doesnt really matter what you got as the other 2 did it before you anyway' It upset me at the time and I did feel a pressure to keep up with them but knew even if I did it wouldnt be anything amazing or noteworthy IYSWIM.

With my DS and DD there are 6 1/2 years difference, DS does get the 'your older, you should know better' because at 11 he has got a better understanding than at 4, he could see it as an injustice that DD gets bedtime stories where as he puts himself to bed etc, BUT he gets a later bedtime, he can roam pretty much where he likes yet she cant go out the garden. So what seems fair to me may well not seem fair to them, they dont always see the full picture.

cheeswright

wow ! thanks for all the resopnses
I'm not going to quote back at you all the excellent points made here...but a big thankyou

I do try to make sure that they have different priviliges / bedtimes etc
but most of the tension comes from the youngest wanting to be friends with the eldest and "hang out"
and the eldest wanting more privacy and personal time -
and boy do they have different ideas about what personal space should be...
I think theres an element of responsibility without any actual power for the eldest too..that might require some thought..did you eldests actually have any power to sanction...or was it "I'll tell mum"? and if you did, what was it ?

BitterAndTwisted

No, I never had any power to sanction and I'm glad of it. I wasn't my sibling's parent and at 14 I certainly wasn't mature enough to be trusted with that responsibility in any case. I think I would have been a most terribly cruel despot.

Children of different ages should to be given age-appropriate privileges and responsibilities but in loco parentis is not one of them.

londonsurrey

If the eldest wants personal space and time, they are entitled to it. How about formalising it, and if the younger infringes it, the eldest gets double the time infringed as personal time? This way, there are repercussions for the younger, and some breathing space for the older one.

pinkclouds

cheeswright wrote: »

I do try to make sure that they have different priviliges / bedtimes etc
but most of the tension comes from the youngest wanting to be friends with the eldest and "hang out"
and the eldest wanting more privacy and personal time -
and boy do they have different ideas about what personal space should be...
I think theres an element of responsibility without any actual power for the eldest too..that might require some thought..did you eldests actually have any power to sanction...or was it "I'll tell mum"? and if you did, what was it ?

Everyone should have privacy and personal time - with due consideration for age and safety, although hopefully, by 10 years old, both kids are old enough not to endanger themselves when left alone - the way my toddler would!

Personal space is a bit of a personality thing. My younger sibling needed a lot of space when growing up - stuff strewn all over the house! She's a lot more minimalist now that she's grown up, so there is hope. lol Although, with 2 kids, my own home is a regular tip! Everyone needs a bit of "me time" and kids always love some 1-to-1 time with mom, so do try to ensure they get it.

If she's left in charge to babysit then obviously younger child should be aware of that and elder child should be free to do relevant things like reiterating *your* rules, reminding her to eat tea, tidy up, go to bed, etc. No different to babysitting any other child. The rest of the time, unless you specifically need to leave her in charge for whatever reason, she's not her sibling's mom and shouldn't need to act as such.

Finally, remember you have a teen and pre-teen here... They might be a bit funny about it now, even though they were all sweetness and light when they were younger, but they'll grow out of it as they get older. By the time they are, say, 24 and 20 they'll be happy to hang out together again. Some of the time, at least! I know my baby sister considered me a tad embarrassing during her teens, which is par for the age. However, she's now in her 20s and we would happily go for coffee or to the mall or whatever together.

jellyhead

londonsurrey wrote: »

If the eldest wants personal space and time, they are entitled to it. How about formalising it, and if the younger infringes it, the eldest gets double the time infringed as personal time? This way, there are repercussions for the younger, and some breathing space for the older one.

We don't let youngest into eldest's room after 7pm. If they shared a room we'd sort out a time for eldest to have the room to himself while we did things with the youngest.

The biggest resentment I felt towards my parents was that we were 'the girls' and I was never allowed any personal time at all. I had to have babyish christmas presents because we always got identical things despite being like chalk and cheese in every way. She always chose what would be on the TV. She invaded my space and stole or hid my things, and was never punished.

The response to any disagreement would be 'oh, just go and play!', 'stop telling tales!' etc. so I realised I'd just have to give in to her demands and put up with her behaviour because nobody was going to step in and parent her.

My parents might see things differently, but I'm giving you the (resentful! lol!) viewpoint of the eldest.

I don't know about sanctions, but I think the eldest should be able to complain to you of something youngest has done and expect you to actually go and see what the problem is, and sort it out rather than leaving the eldest to babysit the youngest all the time. I'm not saying that's what you do, but that's what it felt like to me when I was younger