Can I get these "extra" calls included in my monthly allowance?

apples1

As the OP on this thread can I please just say that this is not what I wanted from a thread. I'ts gone rather off topic and too agressive for my liking. I do think people (especially newbies) should show better manners. Can we just call it a day on this one please?

hpuse

If it is non-sense, you show me a 07744 access number that has been inclusive and staying charge-free for the past 3 months.

My friend, all these calling business run on probability, not just per se plan - take my word it, may be it sounds nonsense.

tandeh wrote: »

HPUSE it must me safe to say you work for a company who has interest in fending off interest from these numbers, by posting nonsense.

hpuse

Apples1,

If someone gives you a tip to save or get money - he is great, right ?

If someone shows how not to waste or lose money - he is always refered with sceptical view - well, thats just human nature.

I'm not surprised by the 'body langauge' shown here as responses to a 'newbie' - fair enough !

But do come back and check it out, or post a reply yourself after using one 07744 number in 2 or 3 months.

I don't think we have gone off-topic yet, as long as my theory stays right, its just a matter of time.

apples1 wrote: »

As the OP on this thread can I please just say that this is not what I wanted from a thread. I'ts gone rather off topic and too agressive for my liking. I do think people (especially newbies) should show better manners. Can we just call it a day on this one please?

redux

hpuse wrote: »

redux,

With all respect, if you think it "helps" people by announcing 07744 or 07755 service numbers which inevitably goes out-of-free-minutes on a public forum, same way I think there is "more help" by exposing the cheating tricks employed by these operators to pocket revenue by exploiting a system.

I suggest you make these comments known to Martin Lewis, who has managed to study these companies better than you have, has written articles recommending these and other callthrough numbers without accusing anybody of cheating.

But in some cases you are lying, so once he realises the mis-information in your posts, I doubt he will devote much attention to what you say.

I'm prepared to withdraw ALL my comments if you SHOW me ONE access number which has been included in free minutes for the last 6 months by any operator. So we both are playing a fair game, serving a "moneysaving" and conscious public forum very peacefully, right?

I already said, there are plenty of numbers that have been in continuous use for more than two years, from the main providers of these services.

But there is no need to compare the operators here, as the variations of destination they cover have been discussed on plenty of other threads.

- Why are these Gateway numbers still operational when Dolphin is no more?

- Why are their access numbers keep changing (there is more to come!)?

Why not? Why shouldn't they be?

Whilst some providers occasionally change the advertised number on the website, the old ones still work.

- Why was 07744 access numbers never free on Vodafone or 3g( Three) right from the start (or from the date when Dolphin Disappeared?)

Actually, some Vodafone (maybe Singlepoint?) contracts did seem to have these from inclusive minutes to start with, or some people had refunds for a while, but ...

How many times does it need to be said? It is up to the networks to set their policy as to which calls come from inclusive minutes, Think back a few years, and most contracts had landlines and same network calls only, and cross-network inclusive calls are still a newer innovation. Even now, on prepaid there are wide variations of available tariffs, some of which include cross-network calls and some do not; and some of those include 07744/07755 and some do not

GSM operators billing system include them (or used to include them) in x-net free minutes because these numbers structurally look similar to mobile number till the point where the system alerts its high use and adds it to the "exclusion" list. This is what I mentioned earlier by the term "bug". The 07744 operators continue to profit no matter whether it is removed or not.
None of these are known upfront to people holding the phone and pressing the number keys - and thats the point, and thats where the role of OFCOM comes, if they ever cared.

There are any number of other mobile prefixes that are included in some networks and not others.

For example the VoIP operation Mobiboo: T-mobile and 3 actually block their 079112 and 079118 numbers, and other networks charge up to 50 pence a minute. This is presumably as a result of the nature of termination agreements (or lack of them) between Mobiboo and these companies.

The Isle of Man prefixes 07624 and 07924 are included by some but not all UK networks. I would not be surprised if Guernsey and Jersey numbers were treated likewise.

Perhaps someone who has sent text messages to the Millionaire programme on the TV could comment on whether the 07797 Jersey number was charged differently than their normal text message price, perhaps 20p for international; this would not be a rip-off by ITV, but merely a tariff decision by the subscriber's network.

But all this is irrelevant. Your persistent allegations of cheating, fraud, churning of access numbers (both by providers and network policy), network tariff changes per individual customer, and Ofcom negligence or even complicity relating to all this are totally wide of the mark and false.


For one example, when Orange started charging for 07744 a couple of years ago, there were long discussions on here about it. Some people complained to Ofcom and were correctly told that the charging of calls was a matter between them and their network.

One initial problem then was that Orange did introduce a pre-call announcement that the call was now separately charged, but by mistake this was only actually implemented a few days later; hence those calls were refunded.

A few months later, Orange reintroduced inclusive minutes 07744 access, presumably after suitable negotiations between the parties involved.

More recently, sometimes the numbers are busy, perhaps because they have become popular. A few monts ago, one group of providers and all their affilaites were offline for a short while, not for the reasons you say, but because they were upgrading their equipment for more capacity. When they returned, they were on exactly the same access numbers as before.

Most of this is generic to all of the numbers; there are no numbers temporarily used then blocked, except for when one fraudster joker connected various 0800 numbers to his affiliate 07744 number then didn't pay for the calls; I doubt he collected his commission for this daft idea though.

I don't know how many times it will need to be said until you believe it - the networks decide tariffs for these and all other calls.

And the amount that the 07744 calls providers receive is exactly the same, whatever your network has charged you; that profit is heading elsewhere, so if you want to dispute anything, take it up directly with your own network

hpuse

redux wrote: »

I already said, there are plenty of numbers that have been in continuous use for more than two years.

redux,

Of course, there may be plenty of numbers in continuous use, but what I'm asking to see is ONE number staying free within inclusive minutes continuously for more than 2 or 3 months on the same network.

Forget bringing attention, most important thing is people stay vigilant, as I already said, to me, a penny not lost is more important than a penny saved !

redux

hpuse wrote: »

But do come back and check it out, or post a reply yourself after using one 07744 number in 2 or 3 months.

I don't think we have gone off-topic yet, as long as my theory stays right, its just a matter of time.

What theory?

What time?

Surely you have been discussing alleged events in the past, not future ones?

redux

hpuse wrote: »

redux,

Of course, there may be plenty of numbers in continuous use, but what I'm asking to see is ONE number staying free within inclusive minutes continuously for more than 2 or 3 months on the same network.

Forget bringing attention, most important thing is people stay vigilant, as I already said, to me, a penny not lost is more important than a penny saved !

You really are not reading the other posts, are you?

The last Orange policy change was well over 18 months ago, about August 2005 I think (without checking).

That policy applied to all such numbers. Despite your allegations and hints, they do not alter charging per number, or per customer.

On O2, 0844 0845 0870 numbers have been continuously included since well before I became a customer about 6 years ago, and perhaps ever since Cellnet started. There have been callthrough providers using these numbers from years ago as well.


I don't think any of the contributors here can tell whether you are posting misleading and incorrect information out of ignorance or undisclosed ulterior motive, but it is not welcome in either case

hpuse

redux,

I'm reading all the posts, but I guess you still fail to understand the point I'm trying to make.

I know it’s a pain to understand but I will try once more, and let me see I'm successful.

Yes, its purely network operators decision whether to charge or add 07744 access numbers from inclusive airtime- agreed and perfectly fine. OFCOM has no say in that.


- Why does the network keep changing the charging policy on 07744 constantly?

- Why do 07744 operators keep introducing new access numbers?

- Why are 07744 operators not announcing call charges upfront like 0844 and some 0870 access numbers for international dialling?

With the above questions unanswered, it easy to understand where I’m coming from.

Clearly, 07744 operators know that their business will only sustain with the motto of “free international calls” from inclusive airtime.

Though the charging decision is entirely up to each operator, these 07744 providers will release another access number which will remain uncharged for another few months. This obviously is vicious strategy, and the poor consumer is not aware of the charges or changes that happen in the background till the END of month, when a bill is produced and sees a 25p or 50p charge way above a standard 0844 or 0870 access.

redux

hpuse wrote: »

- Why does the network keep changing the charging policy on 07744 constantly?

- Why do 07744 operators keep introducing new access numbers?

- Why are 07744 operators not announcing call charges upfront like 0844 and some 0870 access numbers for international dialling?

...

Though the charging decision is entirely up to each operator, these 07744 providers will release another access number which will remain uncharged for another few months. This obviously is vicious strategy, and the poor consumer is not aware of the charges or changes that happen in the background till the END of month, when a bill is produced and sees a 25p or 50p charge way above a standard 0844 or 0870 access.

This is nonsense

Why should the call receiver make a tariff announcement, when it is the subscriber's network which is determining the tariff? Do you tell people who phone your mobile or your landline how much it costs them? How on earth could you, if you don't know what route their call has taken?

Why are you persisting with the pure invention that different 07744 numbers are charged differently by each network, and it is only a matter of time before a new one is discovered and the network changes tariff for it?

Why are you posting misinformation that is clearly intended to confuse other members here?

What is your real motive for trying to damage the reputation of several companies who are not committing fraud or sharp practice as you allege?


If there was any truth in the rubbish that you are writing, isn't it odd that neither Martin Lewis nor any other forum contributor here or elsewhere has matched your allegations?

hpuse

redux wrote: »

If there was any truth in the rubbish that you are writing, isn't it odd that neither Martin Lewis nor any other forum contributor here or elsewhere has matched your allegations?

Did you know that this website also have a policy for private affiliations on businesses?

Be it nonsense, but accept it, "Free international call from inclusive minutes" logo is soon going to be a thing of the past.

I think most of the mobile networks operators have now learned the tactics employed.

I will keep a bookmark on the this thread will make sure to come back, I dont care whether people endorse my findings it or not, there will be a time when they realize it was a mad rush to save pennies, or yeah, and I wish there was forum that advices people on how not to lose pennies.