Insurance Company Demand Photocopied Driving Licence

dacouch

colino wrote: »

I think the "other company" you think is mysteriously involved will be UK Insurance. RBS put/is putting all of their insurance "brands" into a new umbrella so that they can float it off from core business.
So you will find references to UK Insurance on your paperwork from Churchill, Privilege, DirectLine etc., too.

It also means the many brands they have, they only have to have one underwriter which goes through the regulation process which is very complicated and expensive so ultimately saves them money.

UnconsciouS

mikey72 wrote: »

I can see why the need it. Adding non existent drivers to reduce premiums, provisional drivers driving pretending they have a full licence, disqualified drivers, drivers claiming more years since they passed to reduce premium, and the rest. The insurer will still be liable for third party claims, and the car will show as insured to any police check. So I have to admit, I'm behind them here.

I think if I were them I may ask for it too (although people who check passports for CRB checks have been told to stop taking copies!). I'm all for stopping fraud, but there must be a reason why the company is not telling you this condition up front - and I suspect that it is this:

If you tell someone up front that you will want a copy of their driving licence, and they are trying to pull a fast one - then they may take their business elsewhere! However, if you take the money first - then tell them that you want a copy of the licence, and it turns out that there is something wrong - then you can cancel the insurance and make money from the cancellation. Perhaps this is why Churchill hid the detail about wanting a copy of the licence. I will tell you now, that I will always search for a company who regards you as innocent until proven guilty, rather than as a suspect in a fraud investigation.

Also, there are plent of accounts on the internet of staff who have stolen a customers identity.

dacouch

UnconsciouS wrote: »

I have no objection to showing my licence. I just don't want them to keep a potential faked copy of one.

Do you realise that if you photocopy a modern licence eg photolicence, that it holds a special water mark. Any photocopies will show a very clear watermark saying "Fake". Try photocopying or scanning it yourself.

As Mikey mentioned they are designed so they photocopy badly to reduce fraud.

The Insurers will be more than happy for you to obscure your face on any copies you send as they are not interested in your picture. They want to check for undisclosed convictions, some will also check the dates are valid and it covers you for the correct class of vehicle your Insuring.

A very small amount of Insurers will check the driving licence number to make sure it correlates with your d.o.b etc. They do this by just looking at it as the information contains your d.o.b, sex (I think) and name. It's laid out in a certain way that if you look at them reguarly you can check it's correct by site.

I know of another broker who was trying to check a licence number and it was coming back incorrect. They had the lady in front of them and could not understand why it would not go through. They eventually realised the customer was a pre-op transexual with the licence number showing they were male but the name (Title etc) was showing as Miss.

Perhaps one of the Traffic Officers we have on MSE could explain how the code works.

dacouch

UnconsciouS wrote: »

I think if I were them I may ask for it too (although people who check passports for CRB checks have been told to stop taking copies!). I'm all for stopping fraud, but there must be a reason why the company is not telling you this condition up front - and I suspect that it is this:

If you tell someone up front that you will want a copy of their driving licence, and they are trying to pull a fast one - then they may take their business elsewhere! However, if you take the money first - then tell them that you want a copy of the licence, and it turns out that there is something wrong - then you can cancel the insurance and make money from the cancellation. Perhaps this is why Churchill hid the detail about wanting a copy of the licence. I will tell you now, that I will always search for a company who regards you as innocent until proven guilty, rather than as a suspect in a fraud investigation.

Also, there are plent of accounts on the internet of staff who have stolen a customers identity.

As mentioned before, some Insurers ask for copies of licences at the start of a policy, if there is a mistake in the information you supplied they can sort it out then, some will only ask for it when you make a claim (Normally theft or fire). If they discover undisclosed convictions at this time it can greatly delay your claim while they investigate further, it can lead to extra premium or more seriously the claim being declined and the policy void.

If you check licences it's better to do it at the start of a policy than when there is a claim. As well as clearing up any undisclosed convictions, it ensures the Insurer collects the correct premium to reflect the risk of a claim. Ultimately this can mean lower premiums for everyone else

There can be many reasons for a conviction not to be disclosed, it's often a genuine mistake or someone forgot.

UnconsciouS

dacouch wrote: »

Do you realise that if you photocopy a modern licence eg photolicence, that it holds a special water mark. Any photocopies will show a very clear watermark saying "Fake". Try photocopying or scanning it yourself.

As Mikey mentioned they are designed so they photocopy badly to reduce fraud.

The Insurers will be more than happy for you to obscure your face on any copies you send as they are not interested in your picture. They want to check for undisclosed convictions, some will also check the dates are valid and it covers you for the correct class of vehicle your Insuring.

A very small amount of Insurers will check the driving licence number to make sure it correlates with your d.o.b etc. They do this by just looking at it as the information contains your d.o.b, sex (I think) and name. It's laid out in a certain way that if you look at them reguarly you can check it's correct by site.

I know of another broker who was trying to check a licence number and it was coming back incorrect. They had the lady in front of them and could not understand why it would not go through. They eventually realised the customer was a pre-op transexual with the licence number showing they were male but the name (Title etc) was showing as Miss.

Perhaps one of the Traffic Officers we have on MSE could explain how the code works.

All of the above could be done if, as I did, you offer to take the licence to them to inspect. My issue is about the storage of official id documents - when everybody knows from experience, that if millions of copies are created - hundreds will almost certainly find their way into the wrong hands.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

look closely to your photo liscence and your paper counter part, they have a 2 digit number that relates to both of them corresponding that they are linked and issued together. a photo license replacement will come with a number then a letter to say its a replacement but will have the number the paper part has.

the reason behind asking for the photo one and paper one, is that courts make mistakes and people dont hand their license in "forgetting to take it to court" for convictions band etc and when their re issued after ban they simply use the clean previous one but the numbers wont add up on the phot license hence a request for both.

now their T and C's wont say you have to provide a license but will state that you are requested to provide any information ragarding your identity if requested to do so and any failure will be deemed as a breach of terms and cons and policy maybe cancelled.

i havent been asked for my license in the policy's ive bought in the past and this year. but i know ever increasingly that insurers are asking for it, with the ever increasing amount of deception some possible customers are putting forward for cheaper insurance and to continue driving whilst banned.

vax2002

Policy and terms and conditions do not excuse someone breaking the law, it is a criminal offence to make a copy of your driving licence and these insurance companies should be carpeted

neilmcl

vax2002 wrote: »

They have just made you break crown copyright, an offence punishable at a Crown court carrying a maximum 10 year prison term .

Nice company !

What a complete and utter load of tosh! You should really give up this forum lark altogether.

mikey72

vax2002 wrote: »

Policy and terms and conditions do not excuse someone breaking the law, it is a criminal offence to make a copy of your driving licence and these insurance companies should be carpeted

I'm sure you can post up a link to that.

Nilrem

mikey72 wrote: »

I'm sure you can post up a link to that.

Especially as the police know it happens....

I suspect the difference is between a photo copy, and a fake licence...or passing off a copy as the real thing (IE when the police ask for it).

A modern drivers licence cannot be effectively copied using a photocopier or scanner and printer - there are too many safeguards involved (IE details that won't show up, or won't copy properly).

Given that it's common practice for the insurance companies to ask for a copy, I suspect they know what they are doing and will have run it past their lawyers, and probably got the OK from the DfT.
IIRC some car hire places also photocopy your licence (to prove that you had one!), which would also be breaking the law if it is as claimed.

P.S.
I've had to supply copies of my Driving licence to companies when ordering stuff online - as an anti fraud measure (I tend to scan it in at about 75 or 150 dpi, enough that's it's readable, but nowhere near enough for a "copy").