cyclist deaths & the law

Sgt_Pepper_2

custardy wrote: »

dont think you need intent for manslaughter?

No you need to prove they were unlawfully killed.

Robisere

Here's a thought or two:

Cyclists use the road but pay nothing towards highway maintenance (as in Road Tax)

They pay no vehicle insurance.

Whilst most of them are reasonably competent, a minority have no idea of the Highway Code or rules of the road. Many of them give no indication of their movements, braking/stopping or intended changes of direction, before turning without warning in front of a moving motor vehicle.

I anticipate the "Cycle Corps" deciding to criticise my words. I have met with all of the above issues in the course of almost 50 years of driving eveything from massive Aircraft Recovery trucks, to motorbikes and eveything in between. I have also been a cyclist, but disability stopped that.

I have also seen a decrease in the standards of vehicle driving in Britain. Some of it is suicidal and much of it is totally, selfishly thoughtless. Drivers turning without indicating, refusing to follow the 'Give way to traffic from the right at roundabouts' rule. Cutting across your path, tailgating, the list is endless. And I find that there are just as many bad female drivers, as male ones. And just as many prepared to flip a finger at the driver who points out their faults.

My point? - That whilst not all cyclists ride without thought for other road users, the same applies to motor vehicle drivers.

I am truly sorry for the families of the cyclists who die on our roads, but many more drivers, passengers and pedestrians die and are injured, every day. The standard of driving and the standard of cycle riding, both have to be improved, to bring about a decrease in the statistics.

Rolandtheroadie

Oh dear Rob, you've commited the cardinal sin.

[Deleted User]

Robisere wrote: »

Cyclists use the road but pay nothing towards highway maintenance (as in Road Tax)

No one pays Road Tax.

The roads are paid for out of general taxation which I'm sure cyclists pay tax like everyone else.

Paperbird

I used to work with a bloke that cycled to work most days a distance of 15 miles each way and never once heard him complain about being cut up / run off the road / near miss with a car / lorry driver in the ten years I worked with him but he often commented on seeing other cyclists that had a death wish.
He talked me into getting a bike again and gave me one piece of advice.
" You might have the right of way but there will always be one that ignores cyclists so keep an eye on the traffic and be ready to give way ".
For those that ask "why should I have to give way" the answer is simple, you don't. But I don't like pain so I don't mind giving way when continuing means putting myself in a position where I might get hurt.
For the experienced cyclists out there while you will all have seen the youngsters that ride as if cars don't exist the worst cyclists I have ever seen was a local cycling club that went out training in a group of 40 to 50 and could be seen ( just ) every week cycling along a national speed limit road that had no street lights between 7pm and 8pm. When it got to winter 3 or 4 of them would fit a light, and I do mean a light, I never saw more than 4 bikes with a light and never one bike with both front and rear lights. Until one night when the police were waiting for them and after that they all had lights.

custardy

Robisere wrote: »

Here's a thought or two:

Cyclists use the road but pay nothing towards highway maintenance (as in Road Tax)

They pay no vehicle insurance.

Whilst most of them are reasonably competent, a minority have no idea of the Highway Code or rules of the road. Many of them give no indication of their movements, braking/stopping or intended changes of direction, before turning without warning in front of a moving motor vehicle.

I anticipate the "Cycle Corps" deciding to criticise my words. I have met with all of the above issues in the course of almost 50 years of driving eveything from massive Aircraft Recovery trucks, to motorbikes and eveything in between. I have also been a cyclist, but disability stopped that.

I have also seen a decrease in the standards of vehicle driving in Britain. Some of it is suicidal and much of it is totally, selfishly thoughtless. Drivers turning without indicating, refusing to follow the 'Give way to traffic from the right at roundabouts' rule. Cutting across your path, tailgating, the list is endless. And I find that there are just as many bad female drivers, as male ones. And just as many prepared to flip a finger at the driver who points out their faults.

My point? - That whilst not all cyclists ride without thought for other road users, the same applies to motor vehicle drivers.

I am truly sorry for the families of the cyclists who die on our roads, but many more drivers, passengers and pedestrians die and are injured, every day. The standard of driving and the standard of cycle riding, both have to be improved, to bring about a decrease in the statistics.

and how does that relate to sentencing?

Dave_C_2

Robisere wrote: »

Here's a thought or two:
Cyclists use the road but pay nothing towards highway maintenance (as in Road Tax)
They pay no vehicle insurance.

Yawn, the same old tired arguments

Whilst drivers are reasonably competent, a minority have no idea of the Highway Code or rules of the road. Many of them give no indication of their movements, braking/stopping or intended changes of direction, before turning without warning in front of a moving bicycle.

Fixed it for you

I agree broadly with what you say in the rest of the post, but remember that motorists kill cyclists, not the other way round.

Please don't lay the blame on the cyclists for being killed.

Dave

brat

Dave_C wrote: »

Yawn, the same old tired arguments


Fixed it for you

I agree broadly with what you say in the rest of the post, but remember that motorists kill cyclists, not the other way round.

Please don't lay the blame on the cyclists for being killed.

Dave

To complicate matters, the defendant driver is usually just a normal compliant driver who makes a catastrophic observational error. This is why the courts have a tendency to be lenient, because the jury can identify with him or her.

The majority of cyclists killed by these drivers are law abiding commuter or leisure cyclists. The feral, non-compliant 'cyclists' who get everyone's backs up are not a significant feature in the stats.

Dave_C_2

And another disgraceful verdict

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3631594.ece

Definitely not a normal compliant driver!

The price of a cyclists life is apparently £2,700 and in 8 months time he can do it again!

Dave

Sgt_Pepper_2

Dave_C wrote: »

And another disgraceful verdict

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3631594.ece

Definitely not a normal compliant driver!

The price of a cyclists life is apparently £2,700 and in 8 months time he can do it again!

Dave

What do you find disgraceful about it?