cyclist deaths & the law

custardy

Sgt_Pepper wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think it wasn't.

custardy wrote: »

well lets take one from the opening post

http://road.cc/content/news/60396-coach-driver-cleared-causing-death-cumbrian-cycling-brothers

2 dead
driving too fast for the conditions
inoperable washers

Sgt_Pepper wrote: »

Whats that got to do with the A1?

Which part dont you get?

custardy

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/fury-at-sheriff-s-helmet-claim-in-cyclist-death-case-1-2920362

custardy

Portly_Pig wrote: »

Already a thread running on this.

well it follows on with my original point
I have been watching this case
the death happened a couple of miles from my home,more worryingly the driver appears to live under a mile from my house

Norman_Castle

Already a thread running on this.

Where?....

edit. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4583007

custardy

Norman_Castle wrote: »

Where?....

Its in discussion time

demystified

Dave_C wrote: »

And another disgraceful verdict

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3631594.ece

Definitely not a normal compliant driver!

The price of a cyclists life is apparently £2,700 and in 8 months time he can do it again!

Dave

Its not specific to cyclists though, you see it time and again with pedestrians as well. Basically if you're driving a car you have a licence to kill, its always been like that.

The points about cars overtaking and then slamming on the brakes and turning left 2 yards in front and road rage, etc apply equally to riding a motorcycle in my experiance. I've even been forced into the ditch by a guy in a huge BMW to have him get out of his car and give me a huge road rage rant about some imagined slight at the previous lights. I've nearly been run down by an HGV cutting the corner at a junction despite clearly indicating to turn right, luckily there was nothing behind me to prevent my frantic back pushing to avoid being flattened by his rear wheels, the motorbike not having a reverse gear. Fact is, car drivers only respect other car drivers. If you're smaller than a car then you're fair game for intimidation/bullying on the road.

Having said that though cyclists are often their own worst enemy the majority around here think that red lights don't apply to them I've even seen one rocketing downhill through a pedestrian crossing on red missing a mother and buggy by inches. Where are the cops when you need them?

Personally though when in my car I give them a wide berth and I know the things not to do when I'm driving, or at least I hope I do. Because by christ, when I'm on a bicycle in traffic the actions of motorists scare the bejezus out of me.

Richard53

It's an interesting thought ... you kill someone with a gun, you're a murderer and you go down for life*. You kill someone with a car, you get a few hundred quid fine and possibly banned from driving for a few months.

I suspect it's the 'there but for the grace of God' thing. Most judges, magistrates and jury members will be car drivers and have their own near-misses to remember. Most will never have fired a gun. One is therefore a terrible crime, and the other is 'something that could happen to any of us'.

It's not logical or fair, but it's human nature.

*Or ten minutes, whichever is the sooner, I know, I know.

Richard53

Portly_Pig wrote: »

It's all down to intent. You could go down for murder.

Of course. But that is a vanishingly rare scenario. In fact, I can't think of a case where anyone has been convicted of murder using a car as a weapon.

The better comparison is with manslaughter:

Law the unlawful killing of one human being by another without malice aforethought (Collins)

Do it with a gun (e.g. during an armed robbery) and you are going away for a long time. Do it with a car and you aren't.

custardy

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/local/10443173.Killer_driver_who_jumped_red_light_jailed/

6 years for jumping a red light,hitting a car and killing the driver

http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2013/05/family-of-cyclist-olatunji-tj-johnson-adeyanju-killed-on-deptford-church-street-say-4-years-for-the-driver-is-not-enough/

4 years for jumping a red light,killing a cyclist and leaving the scene

custardy

http://road.cc/content/news/85744-£55-fine-and-three-points-driver-who-left-cyclist-broken-leg-elbow-weeks-hospital

Cycle campaigning charity CTC has strongly criticised Preston magistrates after they handed down a £55 fine to motorist who caused a crash that left a cyclist with a broken leg, fractured elbow and soft tissue damage.

The driver, 49-year-old Thomas McAteer, from Grimsargh, near Preston, admitted a charge of careless driving, according to the Lancashire Evening Post. On November 14 last year, McAteer hit the cyclist – who is not named in the reports – on D’Urton Lane, Preston.

The court heard that McAteer had intended to turn left at the junction with Haighton Green Lane, but failed to give way. He hit the rider who was travelling ahead on the road.

Prosecutors said, “The cyclist was knocked off his bike and sustained a broken femur, a fractured elbow and soft tissue damage to his back.

“He also spent a number of weeks in hospital due to the seriousness of his injuries.”

The road was dry and the weather described as “fine”.

McAteer was ordered to pay a £55 fine, £43 costs and a victim surcharge of £20. He was also handed three penalty points.

Rhia Weston, of the CTC, said the decision was “ridiculous” and the rider could sue for compensation in a civil case.

“Unfortunately I’m not surprised,” she said. “This is extremely common and one of the reasons why we set up our Road Justice Campaign.

“Why was the guy charged with careless driving? It should be dangerous driving.

“He is putting another person’s life in danger.”

The average fine for careless driving in 2011 was £138. The maximum punishment magistrates can give is a £5,000 fine and nine penalty points.

Weston said, “When you compare what he got to what he could have got, it’s absolutely absurd. £55 is laughable. It is ridiculous for the amount of damage he has caused.”

The CTC’s Road Justice Campaign aims to fix the justice system by pressuring the police, the prosecution services, the courts and the law itself to improve the handling of bad driving and bad drivers.
Why are sentences lenient?

These cases are depressingly common. The CTC’s campaigns director Roger Geffen puts the problem down to a combination of factors including the fuzzy boundary between careless and dangerous driving; the reluctance of juries to convict for dangerous driving; and the resulting unwillingness of the Crown Prosecution Service to try and bring a charge of dangerous driving.

Writing about the Mary Bowers and Sam Harding cases last year, Geffen said, “In neither case can one simply blame the police or Crown Prosecution Service for the failed outcomes. In the Mary Bowers case, the CPS did bring a dangerous driving prosecution, only to have it rejected by a jury, i.e. by ordinary members of the public. Similarly in the Sam Harding case, the CPS didn’t really have the option of bringing a dangerous (or even a careless) driving prosecution, given that a jury would almost certainly have been persuaded that opening a car door doesn’t count as driving.”

Sam Harding was killed after Kenan Aydogdu opened his car door into the cyclist’s path, causing Sam to fall into the path of a following bus. Aydogdu’s car had tinted windows that reduced visibility to 17% of normal levels. He was acquitted of manslaughter.

“It’s true that [the CPS] could have prosecuted Aydogdu with offences relating to the tinted window or with opening a car door when it was unsafe to do so - but neither offence would have attracted more than a small penalty at most,” said Geffen.

“The Mary Bowers raises much wider issues. CTC has long been concerned that the law, and the CPS’s prosecution policies, fail to distinguish clearly between “dangerous” and “careless” driving. Faced with a fuzzy boundary between the two – and with the thought “there but for the grace of God” also in the back of their minds – it often seems that jurors opt for the more lenient offence, in order to spare the driver what they feel might be an unjustly harsh prison sentence.”

The CTC continues to campaign for more approriate sentences for drivers who kill and injure cyclists and pedestrians. The recent Audrey Fyfe case demonstrates that there is strong public feeling that sentences are often too light.