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cyclist deaths & the law
Comments
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Not really. You're talking about using a firearm to commit a violent criminal act (armer robbery), which is not even remotely comparable to driving down the street. A better analogy would be accidentally (but perhaps carelessly) killing someone while using a gun for a legal purpose, such as at a grouse or clay pigeon shoot. There's no chance whatsoever of being convicted of murder in such circumstances, and to be convicted of manslaughter the prosecution would have to prove that you were grossly negligent, not just careless. There's no offence of causing death by careless shooting, so in that sense, drivers are actually more liable to punishment than gun users when things go wrong.I know the cases aren't comparable, and I wasn't seriously suggesting that they were. But look at it this way: if a person is carrying a loaded firearm around, they are very aware of the consequences (to themselves) if they misuse it and kill someone - probably a life sentence.0 -
What I don't understand is, given that the law appears so unsympathetic to the needs of cyclists, why they don't cycle more defensively?
Many of the most tragic accidents seem to happen when a cyclist is going too fast to be able to make a dead stop when something unexpected happens. Either that, or they are oblivious to the risk until it is too late.
I wonder what has happened to make the psychology of cycling so flawed - is it improved bikes, or is it something more?
We drive/cycle within the distance we know to be safe. Seems pretty basic to me.0 -
Cornucopia wrote: »What I don't understand is, given that the law appears so unsympathetic to the needs of cyclists, why they don't cycle more defensively?
Many of the most tragic accidents seem to happen when a cyclist is going too fast to be able to make a dead stop when something unexpected happens. Either that, or they are oblivious to the risk until it is too late.
I wonder what has happened to make the psychology of cycling so flawed - is it improved bikes, or is it something more?
We drive/cycle within the distance we know to be safe. Seems pretty basic to me.
I honestly don't understand this either. If you watch a lot of the "near miss" clips on youtube, you can see the accident happening a mile off...the cyclist's going too fast, he won't be able to stop should that car not give way on the roundabout...oh wait...the car's not given way...now the cyclist's on the deck / shaking his fist / having angry words with the driver...
Obviously I understand that the drivers *are wrong* in most of these instances...but as a cyclist you just have to take a deep breath and think "maybe it's not worth getting hit by a car just because I'm in the right". Likewise, if someone overtakes you 10 yards from a left turn, slam your brakes on and get out of there - why anyone would want to stay on the inside of a car/bus/lorry in that situation I just don't understand.0 -
^^ I take it you don't cycle much......“I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”
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Strider590 wrote: »^^ I take it you don't cycle much......
Why?
I cycle quite a lot...and marvel at the stupid stuff I see other cyclists doing...0 -
Idiophreak wrote: »Why?
I cycle quite a lot...and marvel at the stupid stuff I see other cyclists doing...
Because by the sound of it, if you did, you'd never get anywhere......“I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”
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I've always taken the view that I'd much rather give up my right of way* and be a few seconds late than have my widow telling the judge that I had right of way and he should damn well have seen me. I feel this even more keenly on my bike than I do in my car. Perhaps that's part of the reason why I rarely feel in any great danger on my bike, and why I've never felt the need to fit a headcam and go round looking for confrontations with motorists.
*Not that anyone ever has "right of way" in the first place of course.0 -
Strider590 wrote: »Because by the sound of it, if you did, you'd never get anywhere......
I get along just fine...I'd just rather brake when I see someone about to do stupid than continue pedalling to the scene of the accident.0 -
Idiophreak wrote: »I get along just fine...I'd just rather brake when I see someone about to do stupid than continue pedalling to the scene of the accident.
Are you suggesting they don't brake? Of the collision videos i've seen, the cyclist did actually brake in each instance. I mean they're gonna be doing what 30mph on a road bike, 20 on a hybrid? It's no different to the speed a car would be doing.....“I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”
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The question is whether their braking is sufficient for their speed + accident scenario about to happen.
I'm reasonably supportive of people expressing their self-righteous indignation at other people's poor driving - but only after their personal safety is properly taken care of.
If these accidents are being contributed to by cyclists going too fast to maintain a safe stopping distance, then, I'm sorry, but that is dumb.0
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