Would You Go On the Jeremy Kyle Show?

Welshwoofs

gravitytolls wrote: »

This is so sad. The reason many of these people have such chronic lives is precisely because no one cares. Their family may love them, but having been subjected to the same lack of societal compassion, have failed in any attempt to raise responsible human beings.

Sorry, I really don't buy the whole 'poor little darlings, society doesn't love them and that's why they are like they are'. Many people come from disadvantaged backgrounds but don't live like that.

Perhaps when society starts caring, things can begin to change.

Yes, let's all give them a group hug. That'll help.

Actually what I think they need is some incentive to do something other than be profligate breeders; especially as the children of people who've never worked are statistically likely to not work themselves. As it is, if you're an uneducated, unskilled school leaver with no particular desire to work or better yourself because nobody in your immediate circle does then sooner or later it's going to occur to you that you'll get a much higher income having children than you will not having them and trying to live on JSA alone. Having a child also sheilds them from any pressure to work for a few years...and then you can always have another child.

It seems to me that what's needed is an incentive not to breed but to get off their backsides doing something productive to help themselves. So I sometimes wonder if they'd benefit from a scheme that pays a little more in benefits than if the individual had a couple of kids BUT in return for that money they have to undertake compulsary contraception (e.g. implant for girls, I guess for the lads there'd have to be a written undertaking to use condoms) and compulsary vocational training on a full-time basis to give them a skill.

POPPYOSCAR

gravitytolls wrote: »

This is so sad. The reason many of these people have such chronic lives is precisely because no one cares. Their family may love them, but having been subjected to the same lack of societal compassion, have failed in any attempt to raise responsible human beings.

Perhaps when society starts caring, things can begin to change.

Do you think so though?

I am not so sure.

Whilst I agree society bears some responsibility could it not be that there are all different kinds of people just born the way they are?

sassyblue

Person_one wrote: »

Right, everybody has an equal start, definitely.

If you're born in this country yes. You have access to free education where you can learn to a good standard and with hard work afterwards go on to make a success of yourself.

Bad parenting can put a stop to that though.

gravitytolls

It's not poor little darlings, I'm not sentimental about them, but I do originate fom an area with a fair share of JK fodder. My own fecjless father and his other three offspring would doubtless fall into the category.

The old man was employed by the railways when he met my mum. He was a drunk who left her in debt, poverty stricken and caring for a toddler, trying to protect her from a violent drunk.

When I met him, I was 13, my half brother, a couple of years younger than me, came to me and said 'you're my sister'. I met the family. My father, his wife and three boys. The house was squalid, dogs and cats, rodents, filth, smell, dirty linene thrown into a cupboard in the kitchen that went under the stairs. When they needed a tea towel, thy picked up a piece of the washing.

They used shampoo in the washing machine, washing up liquid in the bath, depending on what they didn't have at teh time. They both smoked, he drank when he could afford it, which was rarely. The kids were spoken to thus:

'YOU GO F***K YOURSELF, F***king come 'ere you little blastard, dinner's in the ....kin' oven, ...kin' like a casserole you praaatttt.' etc.

Now I'm not saying there wasn't love in the house, there was, but you had to look pretty darn hard to find it. The only indications were if the kids were under threat from an outsider, then the family stood shoulder to shoulder.

The old man didn't work after losing his rail job, when the tories tried to get him on a workfare style programme, he went onto the new Incapacity Benefit, whihc he is presumably still on, some 20 odd years later.

Anyhoo, th eeldest was a junkie for many years, 4 kids, two living with their thoroughly decent mother after I had a chat about my concerns with a health visitor, she moved back with her lovely parents. His other children live with my old man and his Missus as they are badly damaged by the drugs their junkie mother took.

The middle one dabbled with !!!!!philia, homosexuality and I believe is now some sort of Walter Mitty character, tried to claim loss of loved one in Twin Towers.... thius is hearsay from the youngest who got in touch via FB.

The youngest is twice divorced, three children, works damn hard, cares for his kids and is generally decent, but rough. He dragged himself from teh gutter by moving 200 miles away fom his family. Pity they followed him, but at least he had the chance to build his life before they had a chance to wreck it.

Anyhoo, the point is the school could've stepped in, they didn't, social services, health visitors, dr's, all could've played a part in this family, but they didn't. Because they're too many to cope with, the resources aren't there, and there is no political will to teach folk how to live; it suits politicians to have an underclass and always has, despite Cameron's rhetoric, the underclass will always exist, they may just get poorer.

Do they deserve our sympathy? Perhaps not as individuals, because they are generally rather dislikable and we cannot believe they can't see how they could change their lives for the better, but as a whole, I think they do. Society has let these people down, and has done for many many years, they are stuck in a rut, surrounded by others with the same lifestyle, watching crap tv that demonstrates their lives are normal. With no other example, apart from posh toffs, they don't know they're wrong, they're too ill educated to do more and their children will be raised in the same environment.

Yes, the underclass deserve sympathy.

sassyblue

gravitytolls wrote: »

This is so sad. The reason many of these people have such chronic lives is precisely because no one cares.

Perhaps when society starts caring, things can begin to change.

But society does care. There are benefits available and what about charities and government funded ideas like sure start centres?

People have to start taking responsibility for themselves. I'm not saying everyone will end up rich but l do believe sensible people can earn a living, put a roof over their heads and raise a family, and that's what counts isn't it?

A richer man who loses everything blames himself but a poor man blames everyone but himself for his predicament.

melancholly

sassyblue wrote: »

But society does care. There are benefits available and what about charities and government funded ideas like sure start centres?

Not under the Tories.... Those on benefits are attacked, funding for charities is removed and sure start centres are being threatened with closure. Yes people should be responsible, but how can a benefit make up for years of awful parenting. If there was an easy solution, it would have been solved by now. I don't see how mocking people on tv helps though!

Welshwoofs

gravitytolls wrote: »

Because they're too many to cope with, the resources aren't there, and there is no political will to teach folk how to live; it suits politicians to have an underclass and always has, despite Cameron's rhetoric, the underclass will always exist, they may just get poorer.

Yes, there has always been an underclass; however historically the underclass probably worked the hardest of all and at least kept themselves....and now they generally don't work at all and our kept by the taxpayer. They also breed the most (ONS stats show that the bottom of the educational scale breed the most...the top of it the least) and that means that the problem they represent is slowly growing.

As I said, I think there needs to be some incentive to get them to use contraception and get vocational skills....at the moment there's a bigger financial incentive to put out sprogs and sit on their backside.

sassyblue

melancholly wrote: »

Not under the Tories.... Those on benefits are attacked, funding for charities is removed and sure start centres are being threatened with closure. Yes people should be responsible, but how can a benefit make up for years of awful parenting. If there was an easy solution, it would have been solved by now. I don't see how mocking people on tv helps though!

No blaming the Tories won't wash, labour had what - 13 years to try and solve the problem? But l agree it's not an easy solution.

melancholly

sassyblue wrote: »

No blaming the Tories won't wash, labour had what - 13 years to try and solve the problem? But l agree it's not an easy solution.

This gets me every time - I said that the Tory policies will only make things worse. In no way does that endorse Labour policies. I can despise one party slightly less than the other when it comes to voting, but that isn't the same as saying they are 'good'. I didn't praise Labour and I wouldn't.

What I will say, again, is that all of the things that you said show how society cares are being cut or under the threat of being cut by the current government. So it's completely untrue to say that society cares using those examples as evidence. The evidence of their demise undermines the point you made! They are evidence of things no longer seen to be important enough to fund. To me, that's a staggeringly bad decision, even if their use under Labour didn't prevent the problem.

System

I dont watch daytime TV but a couple of years ago i used to watch it as i was doing my workout at the gym.

I particularly squirmed at who is the daddy dna tests. Some women had a choice of 2 or even 3 possibilities and sometimes it was neither of them. Oh the shame!

Oh and why oh why did so many of them have no teeth?