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Gross misconduct

castlefan
castlefan Posts: 2 Newbie
I foolishly told a series of jokes with racist overtones and someone recorded them, took them and complained to the manager about this. .

It was deemed gross misconduct and I've been suspended ever since. I've spoken to the union about this and even though I've written a statement that I intend to use in the investigation to explain why I did tell jokes.

I was informed by the union - and someone else - that because it's gross misconduct it will undoubtedly go, once the investigation is concluded, to disciplinary panel.

If that's the case, it's likely that I'd either get a final written warning or dismissal.

Anyone else been investigated for gross misconduct and does this tie in with what happened to you?
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Comments

  • MissSarah1972
    MissSarah1972 Posts: 1,648 Forumite
    edited 23 June 2012 at 12:10AM
    castlefan wrote: »
    I foolishly told a series of jokes with racist overtones and someone recorded them, took them and complained to the manager about this. I'm in the education business and I was attempting to use this to illustrate a point - it's a subject that the people present had discussed in the past.

    It was deemed gross misconduct and I've been suspended ever since. I've spoken to the union about this and even though I've written a statement that I intend to use in the investigation to explain why I did tell jokes.

    I was informed by the union - and someone else - that because it's gross misconduct it will undoubtedly go, once the investigation is concluded, to disciplinary panel.

    If that's the case, it's likely that I'd either get a final written warning or dismissal.

    Anyone else been investigated for gross misconduct and does this tie in with what happened to you?

    Not similar at all but I was given a final written warning (never had one warning at all on my record or any verbal things either) for not wanting to stay in at lunch time to cover reception when the whole office went out for a 2 hour lunch break (you only got an hour if you didn't go out with them all) and it was deemed to be gross miscounduct. I was going to lunch with a friend but they still said it was gross misconduct

    I was not susspended but I had a discplinary and the next day I got the warming.

    Stayed on my record for a year.
  • MissSarah1972
    MissSarah1972 Posts: 1,648 Forumite
    castlefan wrote: »
    So it's probably going to go to the panel, at which point it depends on what the people there choose to do.

    I wish the ground would swallow me up or present me with a time machine. :(
    I don't know how a panel work, mine was given to me by my boss.
  • Sambucus_Nigra
    Sambucus_Nigra Posts: 8,669 Forumite
    What point were you trying to make, as a matter of interest, that only racist jokes could illustrate?
    If you haven't got it - please don't flaunt it. TIA.
  • marybelle01
    marybelle01 Posts: 2,101 Forumite
    As a manager in a similar business, I'd have to say that I can't think of many occasions on which the outcome would be anything other than dismissal. In these sorts of sectors a single racist joke would be likely to result in dismissal unless there was a really strong defence (and by a defence I don't mean a good reason for telling the joke, I mean a really good argument against dismissal). Telling a series of jokes? Not a chance. And you really need to work on your defence. Because as a manager who hears these kinds of hearings, I could possibly believe that telling a single inappropriate joke was illustrating a point, although it is stretching it - I cannot imagine any reason to tell a series of them. What was that - emphasis?

    Given the nature of the complaint I cannot imagine it won't go to a disciplinary panel. Racism is a very serious allegation and given that there is evidence then no investigating officer would be willing to recommend against a disciplinary even if they believed you. It would simply leave the employer too vulnerable to be seen to be doing nothing about it. And I am afraid that I wouldn't rate your chances of a final written warning much, but if you are going to stand any chance at all, I would suggest an awful lot more than an explanation for why you told the jokes, which is likely to go down like a lead balloon. The issue here isn't just that you told them but also that you lacked the professional judgement to realise that they were inappropriate in the telling for any reason. Grovelling apologies, a long and distinguished employment record with the employers and even tears won't go amiss. And I am 100% serious about that. Start from the assumption that you are probably going to be dismissed, because you probably are, and do whatever it takes to try to convince them not to.

    Sorry if that wasn't what you wanted to hear, but there is no point in sugar coating it. In your sector of work (and in mine) a final written warning for something like this would be exceptionally rare.
  • ktothema
    ktothema Posts: 494 Forumite
    Purely because i had a lecturer do this once, the only way I can think of was when trying to illustrate what most people think inoffensive is offensive to someone. For example, he pulled a typical Irish joke then pointe out how the Irish were offended, then did an anti English one which the Irish were amused t, but the English offended and went on like that. But his speech was so peppered with explanation the only way you would have misconstrued it was if the explanations were edited out.

    Unfortunately, I agree with marybelle01's comments. Too serious nowadays and would need a real decent argument.
    Data protection is there for you, not for companies to hide behind
  • colino
    colino Posts: 5,059 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Union or not, you are flying out the door. In mitigation do you want to say you are naturally a racist or too stupid to see the harm in your bad judgement?
  • DVardysShadow
    DVardysShadow Posts: 18,949 Forumite
    What you really need is the recording of the jokes.

    If it is a full recording with context which justifies the jokes, you should defend on the basis of the context in the recording.

    If it is edited highlights, you need to draw attention to the fact that the context has been stripped out. Do you know who took the recording? Are they being malicious towards you or are they being a bit simple minded?
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
  • ohreally
    ohreally Posts: 7,525 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    What you really need is the recording of the jokes

    Indeed, damning or otherwise you need to get access to this recording. Speak with your union and arrange for a suitably experienced full time officer to pick this up especially if there are fitness to practice issues which could result in you being struck off.
    Don’t be a can’t, be a can.
  • Cry. Grovel. Apologise profusely. Express your sorrow at what has happened and highlight any good things you have done in your job. You're probably getting the boot but do all this and you MAY have half a chance. Sorry but it doesn't look good. Start job hunting NOW too.
  • vax2002
    vax2002 Posts: 7,187 Forumite
    In these sorts of sectors a single racist joke would be likely to result in dismissal unless...

    Unless the victims are WHITE, such as GINGER + BLONDE
    The same jokes are "funny" then.
    Only self denunciation is acceptable !
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
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