How to get out of paying TV license (yes, REALLY)

baza52

gemmanemesis1 wrote: »

Comments like that really frustrate me. I have the CHOICE to buy Virgin or more hardware, and I am paying for a service I actually use. Don't you see the difference? I don't like being forced to pay for the BBC when I couldn't care less if I didn't have their channels. It's the principle of it.

Why watch BBC on catchup tv then?
What virgin service are you paying to use? you dont watch live or recorded tv and catchup tv is free like you say.
Surely your paying virgin for nothing

gemmanemesis1

Odd question Obviously I choose to pay Virgin for TIVO, which provides catch up tv service, which gives me the facility to watch all programmes I want to watch from the past week, and for 4OD, BBC Iplayer, Youtube on my television, wireless internet and a phone line, for a very reasonable price.. This is all I need, I don't NEED the live TV. I may or may not watch BBCIPlayer at some point, but the point is that if it wasnt free on Iplayer I would not choose to have it and pay extra for it, and don't feel that we should have to fund the BBC just so they don't show adverts. Is the absence of adverts really worth £145 per year? Anyway, as I've said I wont have this problem once I get a multimedia hard drive. I set up this thread to share info I thought was useful to others, so if you don't find it useful fair enough, but don't post snide comments, it's a bit immature. On principle I just believe in free choice, and I thought most people would agree. I can see why they are still getting away with this enforcement. I'm not well off, but I'd rather pay £75 for a hard drive than £145 for something I don't believe in.

baza52

But you subsribe to Virgin for their TV but dont watch it? thats a lil bit strange.
Do you pay Virgin MORE than the yearly licence fee?

If i were to suggest we all file our 50p coins down to make 10p pieces someone would do it.
Doesnt make it moneysaving tho....

Noddy1

baza52 wrote: »

But you subsribe to Virgin for their TV but dont watch it? thats a lil bit strange.
Do you pay Virgin MORE than the yearly licence fee?

If i were to suggest we all file our 50p coins down to make 10p pieces someone would do it.
Doesnt make it moneysaving tho....

Not necessarily. Virgin does some cracking deals for some of their customers.

I'm not really involved in this thread, but for example one offer some people have had is £13/month for landline (evening + weekends), 10MB broadband and TV all inclusive. I was on this offer for 12 months, although Virgin Media have tightened up and offers aren't quite as good anymore (more like £20 for all 3)

giraffe69

I find all this very confusing. If I do not watch any live TV but use my TIVO box for recording TV as it is broadcast to watch later don't I need a licence?
To pretend I can't afford the cost of the licence when I have all manner of techno gear in the house seems to be economical with the truth.

Of course I can not have a licence, not answer the door, write telling the TV people this, insult any Capita employees who come round, decline to tell them who I am. This is to avoid a payment of £2.79 per week.

Next time you go to the post office or supermarket see if you can buy a sense of proportion.

JimmyTheWig

gemmanemesis1 wrote: »

Online catch upTV services are fine, because you are not recording or watching live TV at the time it is broadcast, the programmes are streamed from an online source which is an independent service. I am 100% sure about this, I have read the Communications Act. Tv Licencing even specify that you are allowed to use these services without a licence through your television, but you must not have the TV set up with an aerial or cable, as this implies an intent to watch or record live TV. In this case the TV essentially becomes a just a monitor for an internet service.
When I talked to them I did stipulate that PCs have access to live TV, but that they would not force a TV licence on a person without a TV just because they might access live TV online. I explained that I am using my TIVO solely for the same catch up services available to anyone with a PC, so why should I have to pay for a licence when someone with just a PC with the same capabilities doesn't? They say that the difference lies in the fact that the primary function of a TIVO box is to show live TV, which I disagree with, as it depends on how a person chooses to use it.

The point is, if it got to court it would come down to a matter of opinion.
The vast likelihood is that someone with a TV set up to watch live broadcasts uses it to watch live broadcasts.

Similarly, if you were a suspected terrorist and the police found bomb making instructions in your house the chances are you would be done for it.
You may argue that "some people use bomb making instructions to make bombs, but I was just going to use the paper to write a shopping list on the back" but I'm not sure that a court would believe you - whether it was true or not.

Technically, you're not planning on doing anything wrong. But if it looks like you are then _you're_ going to need more proof that you're not.


Not sure on the hard disk idea - does that not involve recording live TV?

gjchester

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Not sure on the hard disk idea - does that not involve recording live TV?

From the simple needing a licence point of view that should be fine as long as it has no tuner. However if you haven't recorded TV from your own aeriel (or dish) but obtained it form elsewhere then you have a different matter of copyright to consider.

What also further complicates matters is that the terms of using the iPlayer state you need a TV licence in order to use it. (section 3.2.2 of http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms/personal.shtml) so even if you can't recieve broadcasts directly then in order to use the iPlayer you need a licence anyway, which defeats the initial premise anyway.

Technically in the UK even recording a program and playing it back later as your out / busy (timeshifting) is breaking copyright as you don't have the rights to make a copy but has never been enforced and would probalby be unworkable anyway.

almillar

Jimmythewig - yes, if you use a hard drive recorder, PVR, or PC with a tuner card, you're recording the BROADCAST through the aerial, satellite dish, or cable, and therefore should be paying the licence.
gemma - you say you might watch iPlayer- you're welcome. My TV Licence pays for that. It also pays for BBC TV and Radio, their website, and also lots of Freeview and digital radio infrastructure. Do you use any of the above? Have you ever watched TV in the USA? If so, then you might think that £145 isn't so bad for the Beeb...

HappyMJ

gjchester wrote: »

From the simple needing a licence point of view that should be fine as long as it has no tuner. However if you haven't recorded TV from your own aeriel (or dish) but obtained it form elsewhere then you have a different matter of copyright to consider.

What also further complicates matters is that the terms of using the iPlayer state you need a TV licence in order to use it. (section 3.2.2 of http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms/personal.shtml) so even if you can't recieve broadcasts directly then in order to use the iPlayer you need a licence anyway, which defeats the initial premise anyway.

Technically in the UK even recording a program and playing it back later as your out / busy (timeshifting) is breaking copyright as you don't have the rights to make a copy but has never been enforced and would probalby be unworkable anyway.

That's only if you watch a program on iPlayer at the same time it is broadcast. iPlayer programs are not available for viewing until the program has finished broadcasting on normal TV.

You may not watch television programmes using BBC Online Services on any device (including mobile phones, "smart" phones or devices, laptops, tablets and personal computers) at the same time (or virtually the same time) as the programmes are being broadcast, simulcast or otherwise made available by the BBC on television, unless you have a valid television licence. For more information on this requirement please see the Frequently Asked Questions or you can contact TV Licensing by calling 0870 241 5590 or by visiting www.tvlicensing.co.uk.

davidlizard

gemmanemesis1 wrote: »

Snip.

Although the TVL website simply says if you do not USE your TV to watch or record live TV, and mentions nothing about needing a licence solely because your device is CAPABLE of receiving live signals, it does say in section 363 of the Communications Act 2003: "A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence."

Snip

If you own a TV CAPABLE of receiving ANY live channels you must pay, despite the fact that you may not watch bbc channels. Isn't this the equivalent to giving someone a speeding ticket because their car is CAPABLE of exceeding speed limits, even though they never intend to speed? Why don't we stand up for ourselves? MAKE BBC OPTIONAL, ABOLISH TV LICENSE and end this undemocratic regime...Or get a media hard drive!

The key word in the first paragraph is "use".

There is something called the Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 which is to be read in conjunction with the 2003 Communications Act. This provides a clear definition of what is meant by "installation" and "use", and makes it clear that you only need to buy a licence if you watch TV as it is broadcast, as countless others in this and other posts point out.

After receiving some extremely nasty threats from the BBC/TVL at a time I had no need for a licence (abuse screamed through the letterbox at 11pm, and someone on another occasion kicked my neighbours car in a fit of rage), I no longer buy a licence on principle - I never watch BBC and have no desire to fund their champagne lifestyles and abusing revenue raising tactics. They have tried to take me to court twice, but the first time they did not show up, and the second time they failed to follow the correct procedure and I was awarded costs for my time.

It is really sad that people who legally have no need for a licence feel intimidated into buying one in case they end up in court in front of a BBC trained judge with falsified evidence.