I have joined the UKIP party

jonewer

adindas wrote: »

Here is the list of skilled occupation where UK government have acknowledged that there is a shortage.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:ZL0zlTcEXYsJ:www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/workingintheuk/shortageoccupationlistnov11.pdf+Shortage+Occupation+List+%E2%80%93+Government-approved+version+%E2%80%93+valid+from+14+November+2011&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESi3_Z3JljRxaEUt3hoy_N97M3E7nWs0Rn9zSs_JYuoXJoSQDKqJApyXAgpjvbrc2Zl4ZP1n9pDqtS4JWu5Qjy3ut_qVP_EryXDgli9OfmKr_d4wI_I19llywoa9h_SSoqgN_JET&sig=AHIEtbQdOZ_JfcwBIdmlHXS-7I8YfNkErQ

Many are in the areas of Electrical Power Generation, the electricity transmission and distribution. There are certainly not enough skilled people available in this area so here migration will help.

Do you not think perhaps that this is a reason to train our own people to do these jobs, rather than import the skills from abroad? Specially considering the large numbers of unemployed we have?

ruggedtoast

What we need to be doing in this country is trying to make reasonably sure that everyone who lives here pays their way, pulls their weight, and is respectful of their neighbours beliefs and customs.

There are people born overseas who come here and live up to this ideal far better than native Brits who we should be grabbing with both hands; and immigrants who don't and who should be thanked for their interest then politely shown the exit when their visas expire.

This seems simple enough to me, quite how this country has managed to make such a monumental mess of a comparatively simple process seems utterly incomprehensible to me.

Here's a guide to get the UKBA started.

Undergraduate student from Delhi with decent grades and £50,000 worth of funding for a bachelors degree in a university: IN

Firebrand, dole bludging hook handed terrorist who detests everything about Britain and wants to turn Europe into an Islamic caliphate no matter how many innocent people die in the process, Abu Qatadr: OUT

Mr Siddiqui from Lahore working 15 hours a day in his corner shop that against all the odds he built up from nothing, so his well behaved children can get a good education and have a better start in life than he did. IN

Mohammad Ibrahim who ran over the little girl while banned from driving, leaving her to die, and now won't leave because he has other children and is signing on. OUT

Why is this this so difficult for the government to get a handle on?

ILW

ruggedtoast wrote: »

What we need to be doing in this country is trying to make reasonably sure that everyone who lives here pays their way, pulls their weight, and is respectful of their neighbours beliefs and customs.

There are people born overseas who come here and live up to this ideal far better than native Brits who we should be grabbing with both hands; and immigrants who don't and who should be thanked for their interest then politely shown the exit when their visas expire.

This seems simple enough to me, quite how this country has managed to make such a monumental mess of a comparatively simple process seems utterly incomprehensible to me.

Here's a guide to get the UKBA started.

Undergraduate student from Delhi with decent grades and £50,000 worth of funding for a bachelors degree in a university: IN

Firebrand, dole bludging hook handed terrorist who detests everything about Britain and wants to turn Europe into an Islamic caliphate no matter how many innocent people die in the process, Abu Qatadr: OUT

Mr Siddiqui from Lahore working 15 hours a day in his corner shop that against all the odds he built up from nothing, so his well behaved children can get a good education and have a better start in life than he did. IN

Mohammad Ibrahim who ran over the little girl while banned from driving, leaving her to die, and now won't leave because he has other children and is signing on. OUT

Why is this this so difficult for the government to get a handle on?

Human rights act possibly. parts of it so vague as to make it a criminals charter.

chucknorris

Have I missed something? If we had a flat rate tax of 20% with no higher tax bands, where is the tax revenue necessary to run the UK coming from?:

UKIP believes in merging income tax and national insurance into a flat rate income tax to greatly simplify our tax code, which currently stands at over 11,000 pages.
At the last election we opted to merge 20% basic income tax with 11% national insurance to create a 31% flat tax on all earned incomes over £11,500. As a tax cut for all, with a higher threshold, it would also take the poorest paid out of income tax altogether.
It would also mean abolishing the existing 40% and 50% income tax brackets, the latter actually costing the economy rather than taking in revenue.
For employers, UKIP aims to abolish employers’ national insurance across a parliament to end the tax on jobs. This will undoubtedly boost employment and simplify the process of employing people.

adindas

jonewer wrote: »

Do you not think perhaps that this is a reason to train our own people to do these jobs, rather than import the skills from abroad? Specially considering the large numbers of unemployed we have?

I am not an expert in this area but what I have learned and read many times two stage solutions is needed which is a short term and a long term solution.

Short term solution: encourages skilled immigration to feel that shortage, raise tax for employers who recruit immigrants so there is money available to train local people to fill that shortage in the future.

Long term solution: Train local people with the money partly funded from the tax raised from of employing immigrants.

Tax is not be an ideal solution as this will make UK employment market to become unattractive for skilled migrants as the employers need to offset the prospective salary from the tax. Keep in mind these people are skilled people which have a lot of other opportunities elsewhere. But if the government could work it out the level of taxes needed (e.g. not too high thus still attractive but at the same time meaningful) it might work.

Short term solution is needed as apparently you will not be able to clear this shortage within short period one or two years. It will take a long time to train local people to become a nuclear engineer, power system, power generation, and power transmission engineer. You cannot just turn unemployed public sector workers who are recently made redundant to become an engineer.

We have seen this method work in many sector say for instance in health care, nursing. doctor. In the past UK recruits a lot of them from South Africa, India. But nowadays it is not needed anymore

In education, Non science teacher. In the past there is a shortage but nowadays this have been clear up.

You might want to blame the UK government as it fails to predict until this shortage really happen. But do not also forget to blame the people who do not want to be trained who just want an easy way to get a job with minimum effort. People just want to get an easy and soft training, reluctant to do a hard training which needs a lot of effort and time.

We have seen UK government have published a list of shortage occupation list which is mainly in the area of engineering. How many people get attracted to study in this area? What I have seen there is always be many local students want to study social science, managements, language, politics, history, etc. Not to mention mickey mouse degrees; it is the degree that it is difficult to find in other countries (apart from UK of course) such as golf management, sociology of football, etc.

Please be aware I am not saying that get training or study in social science, politics is bad but people are likely to get a better chance in employment market if they focus their training on the areas where there is a shortage.

The parent shall encourage the teenagers to get trained or to study in the area which is likely to give then a high chance to be employed in the future not what they like to do. If you tell them what they like to do they will choose the easiest way to get degree which is definitely in the areas of social science or video gaming perhaps (if there is any available)

misskool

the shortage occupation list is a few years behind anyways.

an easy way to get the training in the right places is to concentrate HEFCE money for certain courses at all universities.

Why is engineering not considered a good degree anymore? It's v odd

DavidLaGuardia

Wookster wrote: »

My own experience of immigration is that the UK desperately needs skilled migrants. Every single business I have been in in the last 7 years has been severely impacted by not being able to recruit competent staff, be it sales people who can speak coherent English or Coders or financial journalists.

Most of my friends who are in senior positions in professions or industry and commerce will say exactly the same thing.

Face it, this country needs immigration. It also needs to plan for immigration by way of infrastructure.

The solution then is not random immigration but perhaps a combination of allowing in only those with specific skills as immigrants and having a 'Gastarbeiter' programme that allows guest workers with fixed terms conditional on employmen and no rights to citizenship granted to their children born here. In the meantime we get our own education sytem and skills gap filled.

It is not always about lack of skills. I know of one group of one area in the country where they put a large group of people through nurse training. When they had finished training they were told in a meeting with managers that the hospital had taken on too many filipino nurses and could not guarantee them postions. Disgustingly, they was also informed that if they went to the press it would be ensured thay would never have a chance of employment in that NHS trust.

The welfare state is also in need of reform After personally seeing the operation of companies who had specifically employed people with varying (ofter severe) disabilities, I had to wonder at the number of people with much milder conditions who feign the inability to do anything productive.

ruggedtoast

I like all this "allowing in" business. We need to be competing for the best people, not repelling them.

misskool

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I like all this "allowing in" business. We need to be competing for the best people, not repelling them.

Currently, the UK is pretty good for competing for the best but new legislation and the targets to reduce non-EU migration is very hurtful.

Some parts of the legislation are long overdue and some have just regressed back to immigration policies from ten years ago but some are going to be very bad, such as the cooling off period and non-settlement for Tier-2 sponsored migrants who are here on the shortage occupation list. It's fine if they don't have automatic settlement but in my industry where employment is based on short-term contracts, you'll end up turning away the best brains because they will have to leave the country after 3 years and can't settle.

vax2002

A "safety valve party" full of ex-tories and wash ups from other parties.