Job applicants - the other perspective.

Hiccups_2

I'm really curious about the change in the way the Job Centre is perceived.

I graduated in the early noughties, prior to recruitment agencies springing up all over the place and before the internet became the number one place to advertise vacancies and recruit.

Back in those days, you either had newspapers or the bulletin boards in the Job Centre. Even though I had a job, I would still visit the Job Centre to browse the boards occasionally and it used to be a good place to pick up leads on who was recruiting. All the major employers in the region would advertise their vacancies at the Job Centre.

The Job Centre was not just a place to "sign on" and collect benefits. It used to be the place to go to look for a job. Employment status was irrelevant and there was no stigma attached. The Job Centre used to serve a function for the whole community. Why has that changed and am I alone in noticing this?

I think it was a much better system than having to deal with recruitment agencies, as the applicants could completely cut out the middleman and contact the employer directly. There were no fees for the employer and they could get to see candidates who had the initiative to make contact and introduce themselves.

I've seen both sides of recruitment agencies and I don't think they even know what they're doing most of the time. I've been told that I wouldn't be put forward for roles that I was perfectly qualified and experienced for, yet in the next breath the same recruiters ask me to apply for roles in completely different fields. When I tried to recruit workers using these agencies, I was sent a hotch potch of CVs that weren't even relevant to the role.

The most unusual case that I heard of was when someone told me they'd applied for an admin role but were instead sent to an interview for a Company Director position!

I think most people know what they're capable of and can make the decision for themselves about what job they could or would not be able to do. It's odd how we allow this decision to be made for us, by a virtual stranger (recruitment agent) who doesn't really know anything about us (other than the two pages of details on our CVs) and who usually has no experience / knowledge of the field they are recruiting in.

Therefore, I think the problem of the "wrong applicants" lies with:

1) Job Centre quotas, people who are made to apply for jobs without the necessary skills or interest in applying.

Also, the change in perception of the Job Centre's function means that potentially suitable or interested candidates are not visiting the Job Centre or looking out for advertisements placed there.

2) Recruitment agencies using their judgement / discretion to select candidates for roles.

In both of the above cases, the candidate would have little influence over being able to tailor their CVs to suit specific jobs.

I would conclude that perhaps it's the candidates who are being unfairly represented, because they do not have as much control over their application when this is being handled by middlemen.

dickydonkin

The bar is now set high.

I advertise in the job centre because in the
current economic climate my organisation can't pay to advertise anywhere else.
Which does inevitably lead to the quota fillers, but they're pretty easy to spot from the one solitary line on the application form.
Pay is not great for shift work, with no extras for B/H. That however is the norm for care which is a low status profession, people don't get into it if they want to get rich.

Again this is out of my control - the organisation (a charity) can only pay staff what the county council will give us to look after people. And most jobs are part time because that is what I need to cover the shifts. Full time jobs don't work for us, I've tried. So I can understand why people bypass us - I couldn't afford to bring up a family on a 20 hour wage.

Having said that, most weeks there is enough overtime if people are prepared to travel to make up the hours to full time and above. And some of my better staff have taken a big drop in income/hours and moved from retail management or similar to retrain in a new field with us. OK, they may only stick around for a couple of years, but that's fine. I'd rather have good staff for a shorter time and know they are leaving to move on up the ladder.

So, reading between the lines, it is a low paid part time job with little chance of promotion working for a company with limited resources and a high staff turnover.

There may be opportunities for overtime if staff are prepared to travel and it seems the position cannot be that great when people are leaving it to go into retail and on your own admission, you couldn't support a family on the wages you would be paying.

So, the reality is that many of the target applicants would be on benefits who could lose out by taking such a job - which is not your fault of course, but highlights the problems of our welfare system.

I think you have really answered your own questions!

TrickyWicky

elsien wrote: »

I do know one of the reasons there aren't many applicants - it's for support work for adults with learning disabilities and unsocial hours in an industrial area where you can get paid more doing a day shift in a factory. The pay isn't great, but it is above minimum wage and for the right person it's a personally rewarding job, and a good stepping stone for anyone wanting experience for social work etc.
Only no-one wants to work for me.:(

My partner started off doing the job you describe. 7 years later still no closer to being a social worker. What on earth are you talking about? My partner does now at least earn very good money but is nowhere near being a social worker with no opportunity to train to become one.

Employers like you annoy jobseekers. You claim is a 'fantastic opportunity' (on the lowest wage possible) with a good career path. The reality is you end up stuck in a dead end job, unappreciated by a boss thats on far better money who makes your life as hard as possible and refuses to even consider helping yo uup the ladder. I'm not saying all employers are like that but so far every single one that myself and my partner have worked for have been.

I've nothing against working in your industry either before you ask but I won't because of some of the flak that goes around in it. My partner worked their backside off for a company in your industry, did all the overtime they demanded was worked, got them through many scrapes, even arranged transport (via me) for several of their staff to get in/out of work to ensure all the shifts were covered. My parter was then dumped on when the company got the ump and they tried to discipline them and other colleagues. My partner then walked out the door only to be begged to come back 2 months later because they couldn't cope without them - even offering higher money and a supervisor position - both of which were refused. You think thats something that jobseekers dream about putting up with? - Threats of disciplinary action and the sack for being dedicated and getting the company through hard times?

As for factory work, I dread the thought but I did recently apply for a job in one I was so desperate. They gave me one interview, quibbled over my qualifications and 1.5 months later invited me for another interview (just as I was arranging an interview for another better paid job as I'd given up on them). I went for the other job (spending £40 on petrol for two interviews plus an assessment) only to find out there were 25 other candidates for 4 positions. I got the rejection letter 3 days later.

LadyMissA wrote: »

We aren't all like that. Some employers are time wasters too.

Exactly. I've worked for many of them. The last one was a large national company and after 11 months of being treated like dirt I walked out. I was the first they took on due to my experience, the first to be treated like dirt, the first to get all the grotty jobs (purely because the supervisor felt threatened by his lack of exerience and my capability to do things) and the first to walk. Do I regret walking? Yes because I'm skint but I don't regret leaving the company because they treated me like dirt. I did everything for them, covered all they demanded at short notice, even driving 50 odd miles for them every weekend to help out another member of staff with transport problems and all they did was kick me in the teeth.

Hiccups wrote: »

Based on the posts here, it would seem that there are a lot of complaints about unskilled workers applying for jobs that they do not have the skills for. So the question is, where are those skilled workers? We do have plenty in this country and many companies (e.g. BAE systems) have made thousands of skilled people redundant over the last few years. There should be a surplus of skilled workers.

I disagree. We have many skilled workers applying for jobs they can do but don't have the qualifications for. Conversely we also have Polish people who have no qualifications in the building and plumbing trades who are taken on working on major projects which could then collapse. How many english blokes would get the job now? - Few.

You're also assuming there are plenty of qualified people around. Do you not realise the government has stitched everyone up now for an education? If you want qualified staff then go and advertise in Scotland instead. Over 10 years ago I had to turn away from the prospect of university due to cost - over 10 years ago and that was before the main uni fee's were introduced and then upped to £9k.

What it boils down to is this: Polish workers are seen as hard working and completely suitable for any job with no qualifications, English people must be qualified or they're suitable for nothing but NMW jobs. Before anyone tries to counter that, I have polish neighbours (and consequently half their family turn up at the weekends) they're all minted, driving smart cars, in good jobs, my neighbour is doing building at over £10ph - no qualifications etc and he's doing plumbing too again with no qualification or registration.

This country is a joke. I've always worked hard, worked through nothing but hassle, been dedicated and all you get is one kick in the teeth after another for it.

What also annoys me is the employment agencies who are always advertising false jobs. Office Angels for instance have been advertising the sme job repeatedly for the last 3 years - day in, day out. I applied several times like a mug before realising what was going on. When I eventually contacted them about it and threatened to contact the local MP they suddenly stopped - only to pop up on gumtree. All they do is tout for people to put on their books to try and match to the best commission paying jobs -they don't actually have many real jobs to actually apply for though. Thats one reason I've stopped using totaljobs.com - because it's full of agencies all up to the same thing.

The jobseekers website is now also crap, employers don't like using it so consequently there is little there to apply for that matches what I can do etc etc etc.

I'm glad to see that some employers are starting to struggle I really am.

November5th

Hiccups wrote: »

I'm really curious about the change in the way the Job Centre is perceived....

Great post! Spot on.

The main problem is the JC forcing people to apply for things they are nowhere near qualified for, this must have been a nightmare for employers. When I have looked around the jobs on the screens they have, there is no job description, no salary, and plenty of scam jobs with premium rate phone numbers. It's a disgrace.

Being unemployed is now stigmatized and shameful, I do not admit to any prospective employers that I am signing on.

It did not used to be this way - signing on used to be something you did briefly while looking for a new job and the JC had jobs worth applying for. You were never forced to fulfill a meaningless target. Mind you, that was twenty years ago.
If they could achieve that, the most simple of things over two decades ago, why can they not do it now? Why on earth are companies like A4E even involved?

sammyroser

LadyMissA wrote: »

We aren't all like that. Some employers are time wasters too.

I've been on both ends of the scale so I'm sympathetic to both parties to a degree. Still like to rant and moan like the rest of the world though

exprog

Sorry elsien but you make it clear that what you really want is someone who is happy to bulls*** in writing.

That's your problem.

Iffy_Wallet

`Amanita` - you mention candidates spelling (or lack of decent spelling). However, I had an advert pointed out to me recently, (on the JCP website) where the company advertising a vacancy had spelt their own corporate name incorrectly, not once, no not twice, but consistently - ie three times.

As the final misspelling involved the domain name in their email address, I doubt that they had many applicants.

A quick Google and a quick visit to the Campanies House records soon identified these culprits.

LadyMissA

Iffy_Wallet wrote: »

cuprits.

culprits? :rotfl:

Iffy_Wallet

`LadyMissA` - I'll put my hand up to that one.

I'd just proof read that post and made the edit, but you jumped in there very quickly after. Well spotted. :T

TrickyWicky

Iffy_Wallet wrote: »

`Amanita` - you mention candidates spelling (or lack of decent spelling). However, I had an advert pointed out to me recently, (on the JCP website) where the company advertising a vacancy had spelt their own corporate name incorrectly, not once, no not twice, but consistently - ie three times.

I went to an interview a while back and the company had only given the second page of my CV to the interviewer who then thought I'd been out of work for 4-5 years :mad: I told them that page 1 was missing and I got the twenty questions treatment.

Then they sent me an email asking for my address as I'd never supplied it to them. I forwarded my original application email with my CV attached. Some people really are just plain stupid yet they think they're something special because they're in a position of power in their company. How these muppets ever get off the bottom rung of the ladder is beyond me it really is.