Job applicants - the other perspective.

elsien

In response to some earlier points:
I posted in the first place because it was not one of my better days at work, and after the plethora of recent posts from people complaining about employers I felt the urge to redress the balance somewhat.

I'm not looking for people with previous direct experience, I'm looking for people with the values, attitudes and personal qualities that suit the job and organisation. A reasonable standard of literacy, numeracy and communication skills is required as we have a lot of paperwork and the job is with people with communication difficulties but other than that I can teach new starters what they need to know so I'm not looking for specific qualifications However as a commitment to training is part of the deal, someone with no evidence of self development/motivation (in whatever field) may fall at the first hurdle.
The advert is reasonably clear, but in any case the job spec and specific information about the service and the people who live there are sent out with the application form. Which is why I get extremely frustrated when candidates who may well be suited to the job completely ignore the job spec. If you don't bother to read the information about the job we've made the effort to send out to you, and don't give any thought to or mention of the specific client group and their needs, that speaks volumes about how interested in it you really are.

I'm not sure why the majority of applicants I get seem to have little idea how to tailor an application. It's not education or lack of necessarily as graduates can be just as bad, but there is certainly an element of people saying they have previous experience or an NVQ /degree without explaining how it is relevant. Telling me you want to work in care because you like to be helpful, or that you've had a job in a care home before, without saying anything else is not going to get you an interview. You might be brilliant but I'm not psychic and I work on the basis that if you don't make any effort when it matters in order to get the job then you're probably not going to make much effort if I do give you a position. That may sound harsh, but I've given too many people the benefit of the doubt and then regretted it. The bar is now set high.

I advertise in the job centre because in the current economic climate my organisation can't pay to advertise anywhere else. Which does inevitably lead to the quota fillers, but they're pretty easy to spot from the one solitary line on the application form.
Pay is not great for shift work, with no extras for B/H. That however is the norm for care which is a low status profession, people don't get into it if they want to get rich. Again this is out of my control - the organisation (a charity) can only pay staff what the county council will give us to look after people. And most jobs are part time because that is what I need to cover the shifts. Full time jobs don't work for us, I've tried. So I can understand why people bypass us - I couldn't afford to bring up a family on a 20 hour wage. Having said that, most weeks there is enough overtime if people are prepared to travel to make up the hours to full time and above. And some of my better staff have taken a big drop in income/hours and moved from retail management or similar to retrain in a new field with us. OK, they may only stick around for a couple of years, but that's fine. I'd rather have good staff for a shorter time and know they are leaving to move on up the ladder.

I know there are people on the forum who are desperate to get work, I'm not having a go at you all. But in my experience there are a lot of people out there who even if they do want a job are not going about it the right way, and really need to give a bit more consideration to what they are doing. Essay over.:)

jazzyman01

I echo Elsien. Frustration does tend to make you feel there is no interest. We go through the job centre, is the experience of the forum that this is not the best choice?.

LadyMissA

jazzyman01 wrote: »

I echo Elsien. Frustration does tend to make you feel there is no interest. We go through the job centre, is the experience of the forum that this is not the best choice?.

If an employer advertises on the JCD website I believe they have no £, sometimes the jobs do not exsist, the jobs are filled before they go live and you probably never hear back unless you constantly ask for feedback. I don't see it as the most professional place to advertise a job.

gibson123

jazzyman01 wrote: »

I echo Elsien. Frustration does tend to make you feel there is no interest. We go through the job centre, is the experience of the forum that this is not the best choice?.

It is certainly mine, although if you are prepared to spend a day in your local job centre, you will get the genuine job seekers coming over to speak to you and the job centre will give you a private interview room as well so you can often do an initial sift face to face.

You can post adverts free in colleges and if you find out where the local job clubs are being run, the ones being run by community organisations, volunteers or by job seekers themselves you will tend to find some genuine job seekers in there.

Caroline_a

LadyMissA wrote: »

If an employer advertises on the JCD website I believe they have no £, sometimes the jobs do not exsist, the jobs are filled before they go live and you probably never hear back unless you constantly ask for feedback. I don't see it as the most professional place to advertise a job.

You are wrong - many companies advertise in the JobCentre because they are willing to give unemployed people an opportunity. The vacancies I was looking to fill last year were advertised in the JobCentre for this reason, as well as the obvious advantage of it being inexpensive. Everyone who applied (and we had over 300 applicants) had a response, which was time-consuming and tedious but I felt was important.

The candidates who had applied from silly distances away, and who were obviously only applying so that they could tick a box for the Jobcentre - the jobs were part-time and minimum wage, so these people stood out like sore thumbs as they had no experience or apparent interest in the main product.

To be honest, most people couldnt be bothered to attach a covering letter, CVs were badly spelt and put together, some huge gaps in them that were unexplained. This is what I would hope that training schemes would help people with, as many people failed at the first hurdle because their CV didn't cover any of the requirements that we had asked for!

gibson123

Caroline_a wrote: »

You are wrong - many companies advertise in the JobCentre because they are willing to give unemployed people an opportunity. The vacancies I was looking to fill last year were advertised in the JobCentre for this reason, as well as the obvious advantage of it being inexpensive. Everyone who applied (and we had over 300 applicants) had a response, which was time-consuming and tedious but I felt was important.

The candidates who had applied from silly distances away, and who were obviously only applying so that they could tick a box for the Jobcentre - the jobs were part-time and minimum wage, so these people stood out like sore thumbs as they had no experience or apparent interest in the main product.

To be honest, most people couldnt be bothered to attach a covering letter, CVs were badly spelt and put together, some huge gaps in them that were unexplained. This is what I would hope that training schemes would help people with, as many people failed at the first hurdle because their CV didn't cover any of the requirements that we had asked for!

Your first paragraph described the reason why employers do this and the following paragraphs the reasons why most employers then get totally disillusioned and try other ways - time wasting, box ticking , no interest. many employers like you and me are trying very hard to take on unemployed people but there are many easier ways to recruit.

LadyMissA

Caroline_a wrote: »

You are wrong - many companies advertise in the JobCentre because they are willing to give unemployed people an opportunity. The vacancies I was looking to fill last year were advertised in the JobCentre for this reason, as well as the obvious advantage of it being inexpensive. Everyone who applied (and we had over 300 applicants) had a response, which was time-consuming and tedious but I felt was important.

The candidates who had applied from silly distances away, and who were obviously only applying so that they could tick a box for the Jobcentre - the jobs were part-time and minimum wage, so these people stood out like sore thumbs as they had no experience or apparent interest in the main product.

To be honest, most people couldnt be bothered to attach a covering letter, CVs were badly spelt and put together, some huge gaps in them that were unexplained. This is what I would hope that training schemes would help people with, as many people failed at the first hurdle because their CV didn't cover any of the requirements that we had asked for!

How long did it take to read over 300 cover letters and CV's?

You think is ONLY the unemployed who apply for jobs on that site? To know that for sure you would have to have read all the CV's. You can easily do the same if you adverise eslewhere if you really wanted to help unemployed people.

How many unemployed people have you really taken on in the last 2 years?

I have had no any any luck at all with any job I have applied for in all this time on the Job Seekers Direct Site.

I have even been told I was over qualified & they suggested I look for something more senior - how can that be when I have no job?!

I always send a cover letter and put a full job title with ref number in the subject header and then even start off in the cover letter saying what I am applying for.

The last job I applied for via there in the day it went live replied back to me within 4 hours (I wrote a nice cover letter to go with the CV and references) two words in capitals saying: JOB GONE!

So professional, not!

jc808

wheres this job elsien?

thorsoak

elsien wrote: »

I'm fed up.
I have a couple of jobs I'm trying to fill. Job 1 - one candidate phones to say they can't make the interview can I change it. So I arrange an alternative day and time, which is not easy at short notice as it means finding another manager from a different site who is available when I can get off shift. But we manage it. I phone the candidate who is very grateful and confirms they will definitely be attending. On the day I drive for miles to the interview site. And sit. And wait. And wait. And do they turn up? Do they hell - no phone call, no apologies, nothing. So I have wasted an afternoon I can ill spare when my backlog of work after annual leave already resembles one of those obsessive hoarder houses.

Job 2- second round of adverts as no suitable applicants at interview first time round. Second bunch of applications even worse - only one of them gives any evidence of having read the job spec, and most don't give any sign of understanding what the role actually involves.

So where are all you serious job hunters when I need you, because you're certainly not in my neck of the woods.

And rant over - just wanted to explain why sometimes employers (or this one anyway) get sick of the process and the timewasters, and making big efforts to accommodate applicants when it gets you nowhere.

Sadly it comes down to one thing - you pay peanuts - you get monkeys

I appreciate that carers do not get high wages - generally nmr - but it would appear that fewer and fewer people are prepared to work for that now. Having said this, No 3 son has come out of retail management and is actually training for this sort of work now - he says he is fed up with jumping through upper management hoops and wants something better out of life ....

Amanita_2

thorsoak wrote: »

Sadly it comes down to one thing - you pay peanuts - you get monkeys

It isn't just confined to the NMW jobs unfortunately. If you offer a decent salary you still get hordes of unsuitable applicants.

My admin posts offered well above as I was seeking experienced staff.

It amazes me though how many serious job seekers still shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to job applications. One that comes to mind was the applicant who prided herself on her attention to detail. Perfect; exactly what I want. Unfortunately she had failed to notice that she had misspelt "responsible" all the way through the CV. The same mistake occured 5 or 6 times.....